JOHN FAINE: Well where to this morning for Julia Gillard and the Labor Government?

Intense media speculation that the numbers are being counted behind the scenes. I've done my own ring around this morning and a lot of Labor Party insiders reluctant this morning to come on the radio. I wonder why?

However, somewhat combatively last week Richard Marles was prepared to dip in his ore on behalf of the Gillard Government and is prepared to do so again today.

He’s Parliamentary Secretary for Foreign Affairs and represents one of the Geelong electorates for the Labor Party. Richard Marles good morning to you.

RICHARD MARLES: Good morning Jon, how are you?

JON FAINE: Are people doing the numbers?

RICHARD MARLES: No they're not. That’s an easy question that you've asked and it’s an easy question to answer. They're not. Julia Gillard has the complete confidence of the caucus.

JON FAINE: I've spoken to people this morning who say we're pretty close to doing the numbers. If we're not actually doing the numbers we're kind of working out where they are.

RICHARD MARLES: Well I don't think that’s right. I think Julia is doing a really good job in very difficult circumstances. This is obviously very tough times for Labor. No one’s going to question that. But, I think it’s during the tough times that tough people stand up and Julia certainly fits that category. And the caucus understands the difficulties involved in government at the moment and facing issues like the carbon price, dealing with the patchwork economy and with the very difficult issues of getting the budget back into the black.

JON FAINE: Letting it spin outside of the equation, do you need to check first with Messrs Oakeshott, Windsor, Katter, Wilkie and the like in order to see what would meet their approval by way of a change of leadership?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, first of all, I don't think there’s any spin associated with talking about the need to deal with a carbon price or getting the budget back into the black. That’s not spin, that’s really important government policy and they are difficult subjects to pursue in government and they're ones which obviously involve a lot of controversy in the community but they are the right things to do for the future of this country so…

JON FAINE: Even if they're incredibly unpopular. But do you need to run the ruler past the crossbench members to see what they'll accept even before you put anything to the party room?

RICHARD MARLES: Well, I'll come to that in a moment. These are really important pieces of policy and whether or not they're popular at the moment does not determine whether or not they are the right thing for the country. It’s exactly the ability to stand up and face what might be an unpopular policy but which is very clearly in interest of the country which, I think, defines a tough leader and that’s what Julia Gillard is.

In terms of the crossbenchers, I think the point to be made is that Julia Gillard was absolutely central to the formation of this government. That’s an obvious observation to make. I know the crossbenchers have indicated their support and confidence for Julia Gillard and I think that speaks volumes about Julia’s abilities in this role — the way in which she is able to bring people around a table and the way she is able to get results from people with very different views…

JON FAINE: And yet a complete inability to explain it to an electorate which is why you're so low in the opinion polls and then such —well you'd have to say either ill-advised or ill-tempered reactions for instances to lash out at the High Court and particularly to personalise criticism to the Chief Justice yesterday in the wake of a decision that goes against the Government. When John Howard or Tim Fischer for instance on native title did that, your side of politics was outraged.

RICHARD MARLES: Well, in terms of being able to explain things to the electorate, the carbon price is a pretty complex and difficult piece of policy. You don't explain it overnight. No one ever imagined that we would. But I am confident that in the fullness of time people will understand why it’s so important we put a price on carbon and we move the economy in this way, so that our country doesn't get left behind and we face up to our obligations in terms of the challenge of climate change. I think representing a place like Geelong, its most important we don't find our economy being left behind and that we have globally competitive businesses in a world where carbon dependency is seen as creating a penalty…

JON FAINE: And a prime minister personally criticising the Chief Justice in the High Court?

RICHARD MARLES: Well I don't think that’s what was going on…

JON FAINE: Well it was, excuse me. How else can you interpret her remarks yesterday?

RICHARD MARLES: I don't think it’s inappropriate for somebody in politics to make comment about the fact that there was a surprising legal decision taken by the High Court, surprising in the sense that every legal commentator was surprised —well every legal commentator was expecting the High Court to support the Government’s policy and…

JON FAINE: No they weren't.

RICHARD MARLES: That is right and…

JON FAINE: Well no they weren't, there were plenty of people around saying that the High — I mean the whole point of the argument was the injunction was granted on arguable grounds as an interim injunction in the first place.

RICHARD MARLES: Yes, but you understand that there is a much greater threshold for establishing a permanent injunction and the interim injunction. You very well understand that…

JON FAINE: Let’s not argue the toss about that…

RICHARD MARLES: But, the point is, if you look at the commentators and the lead up to the High Court decision, they didn't expect the result that ultimately occurred. In a context where people are asking the Government about what legal advice it acted upon in the creation of this policy, I don't think it’s unreasonable for the Prime Minister to make the observation that this was an unexpected decision, its a decision which turns the law on its head and as a result of that we're going to have get new legal advice to resume…

JON FAINE: There was no plan B. Any court case you win or you lose you surely ought to be prepared for an outcome either way and yet the Government seems paralysed because it’s lost a court case. This is absurd and it’s a sign of how low things have sunk Richard Marles, I mean we'll go to calls in a moment; 13222774. But there’s a sense at the moment of absolute paralysis to the nation.

RICHARD MARLES: Well this is a difficult time, there’s no question about that, but to make a call that within 48 hours of a High Court decision that the Government is somehow paralysed on this issue I think is ridiculous. The High Court made a decision which was unexpected, which did turn the law on its head. Making that comment is not a criticism of the High Court, it’s just making the observation that it has turned the law on its head. And so what we now need to do is go out there and…

JON FAINE: And what do you do?

RICHARD MARLES: Well no, what we need to do is go out there and get legal advice about what the law now means in light of this decision and on that basis work out what’s possible and what’s not in terms of dealing with people coming here via boats seeking asylum…

JON FAINE: There’s plenty of advice in the newspapers this morning and on the television last night from eminent barristers including Julian Burnside and others saying stop offshore processing — full stop — end of problem. Easy solution.

RICHARD MARLES: Well, first of all, I'm not sure that is the end of the problem and I'm not sure that does provide any easy solution. I don't think there is any serious player in this who has been attempting to find a solution to this issue who would personally describe the issue as being one which is easy and that there is an obvious solution out there…

JON FAINE: All right.

RICHARD MARLES: This is a complex problem but we're going to go about the business of solving this problem in a sober way and the first step is getting legal advice and to make it [indistinct]…

JON FAINE: [Over talks] So the Government’s just going to limp on from here?

RICHARD MARLES: We're not limping on. To make a call that within 48 hours of that decision we are somehow paralysed because we're seeking legal advice about what this now means. Let’s be clear, that decision has ramifications about whether, potentially, what the Howard Government did was legal. It really does change the legal framework in this country. We'll have to assess that.

JON FAINE: I've got to move on. Just finally, was dumping Kevin Rudd now a monumental mistake with hindsight?

RICHARD MARLES: Julia Gillard has been a fantastic Prime Minister. Julia Gillard did an incredible job in the lead up to the election and managed to form government in an election which any observer would say was one carried out in very difficult circumstances. I think Julia Gillard has done a tremendous job. In terms of speaking to my caucus colleagues, that is the sense I get from them as well and Julia has the complete confidence of the caucus.

JON FAINE: Thank you for your time this morning. Richard Marles, Member for Corio for the Labor Party and Parliamentary Secretary for Foreign Affairs.

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