Kenny Heatley, Host: Well, Anthony Albanese has arrived in Canada and the Prime Minister will tell Donald Trump that Australia is doing its part on defence spending amid the Pentagon's review of AUKUS as he prepares for his first meeting with the US president. Joining me live now is Assistant Foreign Affairs Minister Matt Thistlethwaite and Liberal Senator Hollie Hughes. Great to see you both and bright and early as well. Thank you so much for coming on. Hollie, we'll start with you. The PM will remind the US President that as well as increasing spending on arms and equipment, his government is providing bases for US submarines, warships and marines. Do you think that that will be enough, Hollie?
Hollie Hughes, Liberal Senator for NSW: It's a big call. I think our spending levels in defence aren't projected to increase at all over the next couple of years. And despite what I'm sure Matt's going to do and blame it on the former government, the reality is this three years is not going to see any increase in the forward estimates of spending as did the last three years. So, therefore, 6 years of a Labor government where we're not going to see much movement if at all on GDP when it comes to defence spending. And I'm not sure in this day and age that that is going to live up to what certainly President Trump expects of its allies. It's not something that's new. He made it very clear what he expected from allies to pull their weight. So, not only got the G7, we've got all sorts of forces coming through at the moment as Talisman Sabre prepares to launch not too distant future. So, there'll be exercises happening together between the forces. So, I'm not quite sure Australia can really say, hand on heart, that we're spending enough on defence or that we're looking to do so genuinely into the future.
Heatley: Matt, I'll get a response there. But also this review into AUKUS is going ahead. But what if at the end of it, the United States says, we will only give you the submarines if you guarantee that you will use them against China if a war breaks out over Taiwan? What should or will our response be?
Matt Thistlethwaite, Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade: Morning, Kenny. Defence spending is increasing. It increases by about $10 billion over the course of the next three years and by $50 billion over the course of the next decade. And some of that is on AUKUS. Much of it is on a new surface fleet, new frigates, new patrol vessels, new missiles, new infantry fighting vehicles, new RAAF planes as well. So, in every element of the defence force, there is increasing expenditure in relation to AUKUS. AUKUS is already happening. The United States Congress passed some important legislation last year to allow that technology transfer the Virginia-class submarines to Australia, and we'll begin acquiring those submarines early in the 2030s. The rotational force begins in 2027. And obviously it's an alliance between the United States, Australia and the UK to bolster our defences, particularly within our region in the Indo Pacific. So, we're pretty confident that AUKUS will continue on the back of that increase in expenditure around defence that this government has instituted.
Heatley: Hollie, we're seeing an extraordinary escalation in the Middle East between Israel and Iran that doesn't look like an ending anytime soon, despite Foreign Affairs Minister Penny Wong urging for restraint and a return to dialogue. Penny Wong didn't explicitly say Israel was wrong for attacking Iran and says Iran's nuclear program is a threat. What's your reaction to that?
Hughes: Well, I think it's absolutely ridiculous when you've got two nations who've had no dialogue between themselves for close to four decades for Australia's Foreign Minister to call for some sort of talk fest. I think what Israel is doing is, in effect, trying to cut the head off the snake. Israel itself is at risk, whether it's from Hamas, whether it's Houthis, whether it's Hezbollah or the Revolutionary Guard itself. We know that Iran has employed many, many proxies and has called for the annihilation of Israel. I think everyone would like to see the current bombing to cease, but the reality is Iran cannot become a nuclear power. It's not something that would be good for Israel, but it's not something that would be good for the rest of the world either. But just to correct Matt, if I could, he talks about in dollar terms, spending on defence. We're talking about percentage of GDP and that's what everybody looks to. And as our economy grows, of course, in dollar terms, there'll be changes to the dollars being spent in terms of percentage to GDP. We are very much stagnated.
Heatley: Okay, we've got 30 seconds left, Matt, but if I could just ask you as well. Anthony Albanese says that Australia will not play a role in any military role in the conflict between Israel and Iran. And the focus is keeping Australians safe in the region. But would there ever be a situation that that would change?
Assistant Minister: Well, we want to make sure that we de-escalate this, that we do try and return to dialogue. We see that as the best way to resolve this issue. And we note the point that the United States, President Trump, has made the parties returning to the negotiating table and he's saying that he's open to a deal. So, it's not just Australia, the United Kingdom, the United States are urging the parties to stop the conflict and to get back to dialogue and diplomacy as a means of trying to resolve this. And we think that that's the most sensible way to get a long lasting resolution.
Heatley: And there would be no situation where Australia would get involved?
Assistant Minister: We're not planning to be involved in this conflict at all. It doesn't involve Australia. But we are making sure that any Australians that are in the region are as safe as possible. And we're urging them to register with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and we'll make sure that we try and keep them as safe as possible.
Heatley: Hollie Hughes and Matt Thistlethwaite appreciate it. Thanks so much for joining us this morning.