Kieran Gilbert, Host: Let's return now to international news, and I'm joined live by the Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs, Matt Thistlethwaite. Matt, thanks for your time. The Prime Minister this morning was asked would he consult Donald Trump before declaring support for a sovereign Palestinian state. Mr. Albanese said, we're a sovereign government and Australia makes decisions on behalf of the Australian Government. And Matt Thistlethwaite, your thoughts on that given obviously, it's a decision that not just Australians will be watching closely, but many around the world given the momentum at the moment towards recognition of Palestine.
Matt Thistlethwaite, Assistant Minster for Foreign Affairs and Trade: G'day Kieran. Of course, the Prime Minister is correct. Australia is a sovereign nation and we make our foreign policy decisions based on the interests of Australians and what we believe is the right thing to do by our nation. And that hasn't changed under our government at all. What we have been doing is working with partner nations. When it comes to the conflict in Gaza, Australia as a nation alone can have very little impact. But when we work with our partner nations, like France, the UK, Canada, New Zealand, as we have been doing in all of the statements that we've made and the issues that we've tried to resolve, it's a much more powerful grouping. So, that's why we've attempted to work with those partner nations, and we'll continue to do so.
Gilbert: The Prime Minister, as you've alluded to, he spoke with the French President this week, along with the UN boss, the Palestinian Authority chief as well, and your colleague Jim Chalmers says it's not a matter of if, but when. It seems inevitable. It looks very clear that the Prime Minister is heading towards a recognition of Palestine, most likely for the optics of this when he addresses the United Nations next month.
Assistant Minster: Yeah, we've always said that the way to get a lasting peace to this very complicated and difficult issue is to have two states existing side by side behind internationally recognised borders in peace. And we don't see that as a final step in this process. We see that as part of this process, and that's why we've been working with our partner nations on the issues that lead up to that, like the release of hostages, Hamas playing no role. And it's great to see the Palestinian Authority this week come out and also say that Hamas should be disarmed. So, momentum is building and we want to make sure that we're working with those partner nations to ensure that ultimately we get a lasting peace.
Gilbert: What do you say to those who are worried about this step that believe it's premature? Members of the Coalition that I've spoken to on this program have argued that it's premature and it risks rewarding the terrorists.
Assistant Minster: I think the Foreign Minister's put it perfectly, Kieran, when she said that if things keep going the way they're going, there'll be no Palestinian state left to recognise. Obviously, I think all Australians want to see a ceasefire. They want to see the hostages released. They certainly want to see unimpeded aid for Palestinians. That's why 100,000 of them marched on the weekend. And we want to make sure that we get that lasting peace. This has been a conflict that's been going on for centuries. We want to make sure that we've got this unique opportunity at the moment for the world to come together to agree on a process to ensure that we get a permanent and lasting peace. And we believe that having two states internationally recognised is part of that process.
Gilbert: And in terms of the Netanyahu Government, this week we've reported that, well, there was that letter written to President Trump from 600 members of the Israeli security apparatus, former Mossad bosses, former five, former leaders of Shin Bet. Does that, do you feel vindicated in your approach in terms of trying to put pressure on Israel as part of that process? Given the events of this week and the letter from senior Israeli officials and former officials.
Assistant Minster: We certainly welcome that letter from those Israeli officials. I think that's part of that process of recognising that the international community do want two states as an outcome from this and that they want that to be the basis upon a lasting peace. You've also seen movement in Arab nations in respect to their views on Hamas. You've seen movement from the Palestinian Authority. So, there's an international momentum that is building and we do have a unique opportunity at the moment to take that and try and work on a lasting peace that will ensure that this conflict is hopefully resolved once and for all.
Gilbert: There's some controversy around the involvement of Taiwan in Pacific affairs. What's your message to our Pacific counterparts? Should they or should they not be engaging with Taiwan at the risk of annoying the Chinese?
Assistant Minster: The Pacific Islands Forum is very important to Australia and our Pacific neighbours, and we take it very seriously. The approach that Australia and our partners have always taken is one of unity and consensus, and there has been a tradition of dialogue partners being involved. We'll work through the normal processes in the Pacific Islands Forum with our partner nations to ensure that we get an outcome that everyone can agree on. That's the important thing here, Kieran, stressing the importance of unity and working cooperatively to get an agreeable outcome, and I'm pretty confident that we'll get there on that.
Gilbert: You were in the region just a couple of weeks ago with Penny Wong. What's the mood towards China when it comes to the Pacific? Because obviously, that's been a big focus of your government, of Penny Wong particularly, in trying to reinstate, reinforce Australia's commitment and friendship in our region, in our backyard basically.
Assistant Minster: Yeah. We took that trip to ensure that the Pacific neighbours understood what a priority the Pacific is to Australia. It was my first trip as the Assistant Foreign Minister and it represented the fact that we want to work cooperatively with them, particularly around climate change, and that's why we're bidding to host the next COP in partnership with many of our Pacific nations. But there was also, of course, discussions about strategic competition that's going on within the region, and many of our Pacific partners understand that. But the thing that was reinforced and that was pleasing to hear from Pacific island leaders, was that they want to work cooperatively with Australia, that we have that one blue Pacific approach where we stress unity. We're all in this together and we work through these issues and that's what we'll do with this as well.
Gilbert: Assistant Foreign Minister Matt Thistlethwaite thanks talk to you soon.
Assistant Minster: Thanks, Kieran.