Patricia Karvelas, Host: Let's get some immediate response to that and go to the Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs, Matt Thistlethwaite. Thank you for joining us this afternoon.
Matt Thistlethwaite, Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade: Good afternoon, Patricia.
Karvelas: Just your response to António Guterres? He says this is a dangerous escalation.
Assistant Minister: Well, it's been well known that Iran has been attempting to enrich uranium towards a nuclear weapon. The International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed that. That's destabilising not only for the Middle East region, but for the world at large. And our government has said that we don't want Iran to acquire nuclear weapons and that we would support actions that prevented that. And that's exactly what the United States action has done. It's a deterrence action and it's aimed at preventing Iran acquiring a nuclear weapon.
Karvelas: Human rights barrister Geoffrey Robertson has today written that the US bunker bombing was, as a matter of international law, no different from Russian President Vladimir Putin's attack on Ukraine or George W. Bush, Tony Blair, John Howard's invasion of Iraq. He says these are all cases of a fundamental breach of the world order, agreed after the last World War and likely to encourage emulation. He says next stop, Taiwan. Is this a violation of international law?
Assistant Minister: Well, the strikes were very targeted and tight and they were towards Iran's nuclear facilities. The International Atomic Energy Agency published a report a couple of weeks ago that indicated that their assessments were that Iran had enriched uranium up to above 60% and they had the potential to produce nine nuclear weapons. And in that respect, they had breached their covenant obligations. So, Iran had breached their obligations and on that basis, that was, that the United States has acted. So, these were very targeted and they were very tight and it was around preventing the acquiring of a nuclear weapon by Iran.
Karvelas: Andrew Hastie just spoke to me. He says that the Prime Minister was too slow and there was a delay in actually providing your position. Why was there this delay before you could tell us how the Australian Government regarded this action?
Assistant Minister: Well, we're a government that takes very serious issues such as this and relies on very important information from our intelligence and defence agencies and we make proper decisions. That's the responsible thing to do. Nonetheless, we did issue a statement yesterday. The Foreign Minister did about a dozen interviews this morning, the Prime Minister held a press conference to make clear Australia's position. But what's important now, Patricia, is where we go from, from here, and what we believe is important is that the parties now negotiate. We want to see a peaceful resolution to this that ensures that Iran abides by its obligations, and that's something that's negotiated rather than through conflict.
Karvelas: You say you mentioned intelligence there. I just want to dig into that if I can. You are saying you needed more information before the Australian Government could make its position clear today?
Assistant Minister: Well, we don't disclose national security information for obvious reasons. It's around the safety of Australians. But we're a government that makes decisions seriously and responsibly and that's why the National Security Committee of Cabinet met this morning to consider that information. But we did make a response yesterday as a government, Richard Marles --
Karvelas: But it wasn't a clear response, with respect, Minister, I mean I read it a few times. It wasn't a clear response about how the Australian Government felt. Today, it's clear that you're supporting the U.S.'s action. I'm trying to work out what changed yesterday to today.
Assistant Minister: Well, we've always said, and that's been clear over the last couple of weeks, that we don't support Iran acquiring a nuclear weapon and that we would support actions that prevent that. And that's exactly what this action that United States has taken is.
Karvelas: What do you say to Australians who feel deeply uncomfortable about the way that the government has backed these American strikes without international law backing the decision?
Assistant Minister: Well, we say that the, the strikes were very targeted. They were aimed at Iran's nuclear enrichment facilities which had breached that international law. They breached their treaty obligations and the International Atomic Energy Agency had confirmed that. So, that's our response to the Australian people. But what is important is where we go from here. And we continue to reiterate that message of negotiation and a peaceful outcome.
Karvelas: But Minister, is this action within the rules-based order established in the wake of World War II? Do you see this action as adhering to the rules-based order that your government often talks about?
Assistant Minister: Well, the rules-based order is based on a number of treaties that nations are signatories to. And one of those is the Non Proliferation Treaty which Iran was a signatory to. And the body that's established by the United Nations to assess those obligations is the International Atomic Energy Agency. And they issued a breach against Iran for breaking those rules. So, there you've got the rules based order in action confirming that Iran had breached the rules which they signed up to.
Karvelas: Just want to put to you some comments made by Senator, former Senator, rather he's not currently a Senator, but he was on your side of politics. He's the spokesperson for Labor Against War and I'm talking about former Senator Doug Cameron who says that the Federal government should be committed to the rules-based order and should have condemned these strikes. Now he represents Labor Against War. So, one of your grassroots organisations is at odds with your party's direction here. What's your response to that critique?
Assistant Minister: Well, the Labor Government is committed to the rules-based order. I was at a trade convention last week as a Commonwealth Trade Minister where we reiterated that point around rules based trading systems. So, we are committed to that and the approach that we've taken to trade and indeed the approach that we take to issues such as this. But I go back to the point that I made earlier, that Iran breached that international rules order by not complying with their obligations under the Non Proliferation Treaty.
Karvelas: Are we safer today than we were two days ago?
Assistant Minister: Well, we've urged the parties to negotiate, we've urged dialogue and diplomacy as a means of settling this. And that's a consistent position that the Labor Government has had.
Karvelas: But are we safer? That's the question. Do you think we're safer in that region and the rest of the world as a consequence of this action?
Assistant Minister: Well, I think the Labor Government in Australia is committed to keeping Australians safe, both at home and abroad. And that's why we've been reiterating the importance of Australians that are in the Middle East to register with DFAT through the Smartraveller website and to monitor their email and their phones continuously for that information about how we can safely extract them when we can.
Karvelas: Minister, I also put this to Andrew Hastie and I think it's only fair that I put it to you as well. The President is posting on social media speculating about regime change. No doubt you're across it. Andrew Hastie said he doesn't support regime change. What's your view?
Assistant Minister: Well, we're not advocating regime change. That's a matter for the Iranian people. What we've said is that we want this issue to be resolved peacefully and through dialogue and diplomacy. And now, hopefully that chance emerges. The President of the United States has offered to resume talks with Iran and we hope that Iran takes up that offer rather than takes up conflict. So, there's an opportunity here for both the parties to now sit down and try and negotiate an agreement that brings this to an end.
Karvelas: Thank you so much for joining us this afternoon.
Assistant Minister: Thank you, Patricia.