Patricia Karvelas, Host: Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Matt Thistlethwaite joins me now. Welcome.
Matt Thistlethwaite, Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade: G'day, Patricia
Karvelas: Is this a shabby way for the US to be treating an ally?
Assistant Minister: Well, I spoke to Richard after Question Time today and he said that the meeting was productive, that he and Pete Hegseth met for the third time this year and they discussed, as you would expect, issues such as the alliance, the US defence posture here in Australia. We've just had Talisman Sabre where we've had a record number of American troops training with Australians. You've got the annual U.S. marine rotation going on in the north of Australia, and of course, AUKUS. So, we think that the alliance is going well, it's going strong. We've had a Congressman sitting in on Question Time today and we've just concluded the Australia US leadership dialogue. So, there's a lot of partnership, there's a lot of dialogue going on between Australia and the US at the moment. We've got our differences over issues like tariffs, but the defence relationship is as strong as ever.
Karvelas: Ok, but the Pentagon did initially put out this statement saying it was a happenstance meeting, which, which was pretty unusual language, don't you agree?
Assistant Minister: Well, I don't know why that happened. I think that's a question for Pentagon --
Karvelas: It is, but my accountability is to the government here in Australia. When you saw the word happenstance must have raised your eyebrows?
Assistant Minister: Well, I don't know why they put that statement out, but we can confirm that the meeting occurred. Richard also met with Marco Rubio, he met with the Vice President JD Vance and critical minerals, the trading relationship issues internationally were discussed. It was a pretty good meeting. And a series of meetings from the Deputy Prime Minister and confirming what we've always known, that the US is Australia's most important defence ally. The relationship is strong, we're strengthening that relationship through AUKUS and we're getting on with the business.
Karvelas: So, just to be crystal clear, you have zero concerns about that first statement that was put out?
Assistant Minister: We're not concerned by it. No. The important thing was that the meetings took place and that they discussed important issues around the strength of the alliance.
Karvelas: It clearly wasn't a fulsome meeting with Pete Hegseth, which is why the original statement was made. It was pretty brief, right?
Assistant Minister: I don't know how long it went for. Richard told me that they had a meeting and there was a photograph of them meeting in his office. So, the meeting took place. There were defence issues, as you would expect, other issues, and the strength of the relationship in the defence base is very good.
Karvelas: Was Richard Marles deployed to try and talk to them about securing a meeting between the Prime Minister and President Trump?
Assistant Minister: Well, we've, we're ready to meet with President Trump. The Prime Minister --
Karvelas: Is the problem, though, that he's not ready to meet with Australia?
Assistant Minister: Well, we've requested the meeting, that's all we can do. And we're ready to meet whenever the President is ready to meet. We did have one scheduled, but it had to be cancelled because of what went on in Iran --
Karvelas: Everyone understood that, but it's gone on since. Should we see it as a snub? Because that's how it's been widely interpreted.
Assistant Minister: Not, no, not at all. The President's a pretty busy man and there's constant relations going on at the level below the President. We just had the Deputy Prime Minister and the Vice President of the United States have a very fulsome meeting. I think that that's a pretty good indicator that the relationship's pretty strong.
Karvelas: Just on the politicisation of the relationship, because Question Time got pretty intense today and there were accusations that. That the opposition was politicising the relationship. Aren't oppositions, whatever colour they are, if you were in opposition, don't they have a right to ask questions about the nature of the relationship, whether it's, you know, being conducted in a way that they think is appropriate? Isn't that all just fair game?
Assistant Minister: Look, all oppositions can ask questions about anything. I think it's what your priorities are. And you'll see from the questions that were asked from Labor members and the responses given by our Ministers that our priority is cost of living for Australians. We've seen this week through the Parliament, the passage of bills related to penalty rates and ensuring that workers get paid fairly in the workplace, our measures around the 5% deposit scheme for housing, and of course, all the other measures that we're doing to reduce the cost of living for Australians. That's the priority of our government. They chose to concentrate on whether or not a meeting took place in the United States. I think it's about what their priorities are.
Karvelas: Yeah, I suppose, to be fair, we are spending a lot of money on AUKUS and there are question marks about Its longevity, its sustainability, the commitment of the US to AUKUS. Our country is committed billions and billions of dollars to this thing. So, if we're having trouble just securing the relationship, then that, that's a reasonable question, isn't it?
Assistant Minister: Then ask a question about AUKUS. But they didn't. And that's the point. I think it's about what their priorities are. I was at the Australia US Leadership Dialogue a couple of weeks ago down in Adelaide. I met with Republican representatives, I met with Democrats including Joe Courtney. They're all saying the same thing, that AUKUS is strong. They're going through a review just as Australia went through a review --
Karvelas: Our review wasn't the same, though.
Assistant Minister: Well, we had the Defence Strategic Review and a part of that was AUKUS, which confirmed that AUKUS was the right way to go in terms of our submarine capability. The United Kingdom's just gone through a significant review of AUKUS and they're going to lean in further to it. So, it's natural that the United States are going through a review. But the Congressmen and women that I met with were very confident that the relationship will be maintained and that AUKUS will proceed and that we will acquire the Virginia classes when we're supposed to and we'll work on pillar two and the relationship strengthening in the future.
Karvelas: The AUSMIN talks are these, you know, frequent talks between Australian and US ministers, so to speak. They don't quite call them Ministers, but the same idea. The next ones were meant to be in Australia. Is that still happening?
Assistant Minister: As far as I'm aware, they're still happening and they're important annual talks that occur between Australia and the United States --
Karvelas: But when is that?
Assistant Minister: I couldn't tell you, but they're scheduled to take place at their important talks and in the ordinary course, they take place every year.
Karvelas: They haven't. The US hasn't indicated to us that they're not participating.
Assistant Minister: I'm not aware that they've said that they're pulling out.
Karvelas: Just finally, Usman Khawaja, who I've spoken to and will play that interview very soon, he's been in Parliament House. He's obviously a very famous cricketer and he's known for that, but he's also really, really passionate about the Palestinian cause. He's met with the Prime Minister to push his case that more needs to happen, that just recognising Palestine isn't enough. Although he acknowledges it's an important step, that's how he sees it. Will you look at more measures on Israel? Is that something you support?
Assistant Minister: Well, I think you've seen that the Australian Government's move quite quickly to take further action to try and produce a ceasefire to recognise a Palestinian state. And that's something that we'll be advocating for in the United Nations General Assembly --
Karvelas: Do you see the case, though, to do. I know you're not here to announce immediate actions, but do you think there has been a case to kind of consistently increase the pressure on Israel?
Assistant Minister: Well, we have been doing that. We've been doing more. We've been doing more in the form of sanctions. We've been doing more, certainly in the form of humanitarian aid. And we've been very clear to the Netanyahu government that Australia and the world expects that that aid should be delivered, particularly food and medical supplies, unimpeded and unhindered. And that's why we've had that dispute with the Netanyahu government about the approach that they're taking.
Karvelas: So, let me put this to you. It's failing, right? That pressure. It's failing.
Assistant Minister: Well, we think that, you know, the pressure that Australia can exert on its own will make little difference. But Australia working within the international context with partners like Canada, like the United Kingdom and New Zealand and other nations, has a much greater effect. And that's why we announced the sanctions in that way. That's why we've made these moves towards recognition. If we're going to do more, it will be in the context of working with our international partners.
Karvelas: Assistant Minister, thanks for coming in.
Assistant Minister: Thanks, Patricia.