Patricia Karvelas, Host: I want to bring in my political panel for today. Matt Thistlethwaite is the Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs and Immigration. James McGrath is the Shadow Special Minister of State. Welcome to both of you.
James McGrath, Senator for Queensland: Good afternoon.
Matt Thistlethwaite, Assistant Minister for Foreign Affair and Trade: G'day, Patricia.
Karvelas: Matt, to you first. What is the latest on the Australians in Nepal?
Assistant Minister: Firstly, obviously, we offer our support to those who have been affected by this terrible tragedy. It's in the Rasuwa area in Nepal. It's about 120 kilometres northwest of Kathmandu. It's a very popular tourist destination. There were at least 34 Australians, we understand, in the region at the time. And the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade officials on the ground in Kathmandu are working around the clock to try and get in touch with those Australians that they know are in the region, hopefully ensure that they are safe. If any Australians are concerned or have worries about relatives or loved ones who may be in the region, they can call 1300-555-135 or if you're outside of Australia, 612-6261-3305.
Karvelas: Matt Thistlethwaite still just staying with you. The government keeps saying you're waiting for any request. Could you be more proactive and have you offered out search and rescue teams? We, of course, have medical assistance teams. Have we been discussing those options?
Assistant Minister: DFAT is preparing to send an emergency relief team to the region. We've got experts that have been trained in rescue and recovery and we're preparing to send those experts. We're also liaising with the Nepalese Government, the United Nations and Red Cross about any further assistance that may be needed and provided. So, those teams will be moving to Nepal as quickly as possible once we get the go ahead from the Nepalese Government that it's safe to do so and that they're required on the ground.
Karvelas: James McGrath, coming to you now. Obviously, this is a devastating unfolding situation. You know, we take seriously the lives of all people, but, of course, the Australians affected have been very much in our focus today. Given they are our citizens, should the government be doing more, offering more assistance? Offering everything, really, including, of course, increasing foreign aid to this region?
McGrath: Well, I would like to second the contribution that has been made by Matt Thistlethwaite. We think the government has taken the appropriate action it is a very busy dynamic over there in terms of getting information out of Nepal. And at this stage, it appears the government has taken the right action and the government, sorry, the Coalition supports the government in the action that they are taking.
Karvelas: I want to move on to a couple of other issues, if we can. The big issue has been Australia's refugee intake. And breaking this hour, the Prime Minister has guaranteed Labor will maintain that 20,000 refugees a year level. Matt Thistlethwaite, this is actually despite us being told earlier today that it would fall by a third next year. What's going on?
Assistant Minister: Well, I don't think anyone in the government said that it would fall by a third. We've had a commitment to 20,000. When we were elected in 2022, in accordance with our party platform, we lifted the number from 13,500 to 20,000. That was an election commitment that we made. We funded that for four years. Obviously, that funding is up for renewal and the Prime Minister has confirmed that that number will be met over the coming years. So, we're delivering on the commitment that we made and we're sticking to the policy that we've developed in our platform that was recently reaffirmed in Adelaide.
Karvelas: A spokesperson for Tony Burke said it would be cut. That is actually what happened. So, Matt Thistlethwaite.
Assistant Minister: Well, no one said to me that we're going to be cutting that program, and the Prime Minister has confirmed it. I think the other important point to make, Patricia, is it's based on our assessment of what we believe is a fair intake for Australia to do its bit internationally and also what we can fund in the Budget. Obviously, there's a cost to resettling a refugee in Australia. They'll get access to settlement services, they get access to Medicare, their children get access to the education system. We need to budget for that each year and we do that properly and consistent with Cabinet rules and guidelines about how we prepare the Budget. And that's why these things take a bit of time to deliberate about. But we've confirmed that today that we're maintaining that 20,000 intake. A lot of that is based on the consultations that we have with the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, which tell us where the greatest need is in terms of displaced people and meeting those --
Karvelas: I understand all that, but the position has changed within a day. I mean, a position was put out that the Prime Minister has now repudiated. That's embarrassing, isn't it? It's messy.
Assistant Minister: No, I don't think it is. The position hasn't changed because it was 20,000 yesterday and it's 20,000 today moving forward. So, we're maintaining --
Karvelas: Apart from the brief moment where the Minister thought it was going to be lower, but now it's back to 20,000?
Assistant Minister: Well, we're maintaining the commitment that we took to the last election, that we've funded for the last four years, we'll continue to fund into the future. It's based on what we think is a fair intake for Australia to do its bit internationally, and also what our economy, our budget and the Australian community can handle moving forward.
Karvelas: Ok, well, I just spoke with Andrew Bragg from your side, James McGrath, and he said, you know, cutting refugee intake isn't the way to actually achieve, you know, lower immigration. What's your view?
McGrath: Well, I agree with Senator Bragg, but what we've seen, not just today but over the last few weeks, is there does seem to be, I don't like to be partisan, but there does seem to be some confusion in the Labor Party of where they are on the issue of migration. The Minister was to deliver a pretty important speech a few weeks ago that suddenly didn't happen. And then we have had the confusion of today where particularly the Minister, through their office, have said one thing, then the Prime Minister said another thing, and then the Prime Minister then had to release a statement exclusively to you on the abc cleaning up the situation. It is clear there is some confusion amongst Labor ranks. Our position is quite clear. We will set net overseas migration based on the number of homes that are built in Australia the preceding year.
Karvelas: Ok, going back to you on that issue. There has been confusion today, but it now has been clarified by the Prime Minister, Matt Thistlethwaite. It's partly because the backlash was so strong. I mean, at your recent conference, you know, your membership actually backed in this 20,000 number, said it should continue and actually wants to get to 27,000 even higher, in fact.
Assistant Minister: Yeah, that's the aspiration that exists in the platform. We think that the appropriate number at the moment is, and we obviously need to balance that with the other elements of the migration system that are really important, Patricia, particularly skilled migration. Three quarters of our permanent migration program is made up by skilled migrants. I was at a local golf course today, meeting with the greenkeeping staff, who were telling me that they're struggling to get greenkeepers to work in their profession in a city golf course. Now, imagine how they're struggling in professions in rural and regional areas. And that's what we've heard in recent times. That's why we're taking our time with any proposed changes. Really the area where we do have some difficulties in our migration system is from people who come here on temporary visas, particularly visitors and students, and don't leave at the end of their visa period. They overstay, they might claim protection and seek to stay in Australia. That's a breach of the rules and we want to make sure that people abide by the rules when they come here. And that's why we're looking at further policy reform. And that takes time.
Karvelas: Ok, so how much more time will it take?
Assistant Minister: Well, it's been considered by Cabinet. I'm not a member of Cabinet, but we're working through the details of it because we want to get it right. And making changes in the migration program, as we've seen, has significant implications across a number of portfolio areas. Most notably, it affects small businesses and employers who rely on migrant labour, particularly those in rural and regional areas, in the aged care sector, in the healthcare sector, in the education profession. We've got massive skill shortages, particularly in rural and regional Australia. We're going to need a fair level of migration, not to mention the agricultural sector that rely heavily on working holiday makers and other temporary visas, like palm visas. So, we want to make sure we get the balance right, that we can continue to support employers with their migration needs, but also that we've got a system of rules that we think are fair, that people abide by, and that is important, that once you have finished the term of your temporary visa, you should leave Australia under those terms.
Karvelas: All right, we're out of time. Thanks to both of you, my political panel, Matt Thistlethwaite, the Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs and Immigration, our big two this afternoon, and James McGrath is the Shadow Special Minister of State.