Peter Stefanovic, Host: The Albanese Government has conceded passports must be given to the so called ISIS brides and their children who are now expected to return home. That's except for one of the women who has received a temporary exclusion order and will therefore stay behind. Joining us live on this Thursday morning, the Assistant Foreign Minister, Matt Thistlethwaite. Matt, good to see you this morning. So, when the government says this week that it wasn't assisting, what that means is that you are assisting?
Matt Thistlethwaite, Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade: Good morning, Pete. Our government has provided no assistance whatsoever to these individuals. Any Australian citizen under section 7 of the Passports Act is entitled to an Australian passport, just as any Australian citizen is entitled to a Medicare card. But we haven't provided any assistance whatsoever. In fact, Tony Burke's announced that one of the individuals will be excluded from Australia under that legislation. It's up to the security and intelligence agencies to advise the government and once we received that advice, we acted very quickly to issue that exclusion order.
Stefanovic: Have some exemptions and senior approvals been provided by your government to issue these passports though? Because many in this cohort wouldn't have the right or any documentation.
Assistant Minister: Well, like all Australian governments, the law must apply and that law under section 7 of the Passports Act allows any Australian citizen to apply for and receive a passport. Now, no government, including members of the opposition, could stop that. So, that's a legal requirement. However, where we got advice under the legislation to allow us to exclude someone, we acted very quickly and that exclusion order has been issued.
Stefanovic: But the simple fact, the simple point of issuing a passport, does that not involve government help or departmental help to make sure passports are facilitated?
Assistant Minister: It's a right that everyone has as an Australian citizen. So, I, as a government official or others can't stop that. So, that's a legal requirement. So, we're obliged as a government to apply the law and that applies regardless of who is in government. If the legal party were in government, they would have to apply the law as well.
Stefanovic: But that does fit within the term of assistance, though, does it not?
Assistant Minister: Well, no. It's not government officials like myself or members of our government providing assistance to allow passage for these individuals to come to Australia. We haven't provided any sort of assistance whatsoever. The law has applied and we as members of the government can't stop the law applying unless. Unless there's a change to that law. And this is a law that was, this is a law that was put in place under the previous administration and we are applying the law.
Stefanovic: If one temporary exclusion order has been provided, though, why not more legislation?
Assistant Minister: This legislation was put in place by the Abbott and Turnbull governments. The legislation requires a recommendation from a competent authority. The security and intelligence agencies have to provide advice to the Minister and then the Minister can issue the exclusion order. When Tony Burke received that advice, he acted quickly and on that advice. If there is further advice regarding other individuals, then we will act quickly.
Stefanovic: Right, ok. But if they've already arrived home, might that not be too late, then?
Assistant Minister: Well, these individuals need to also understand that if they have been involved in or committed any crimes, then they will be immediately arrested upon their arrival and face prosecution. So, that's something for them to weigh up. And no doubt the security and intelligence agencies and our police force will be assessing whether or not any crimes have been committed.
Stefanovic: So, just back on Tony Burke. The Daily Telegraph has uncovered encrypted messages through the women who were living in the Roj camp in Northern Syria, which said the Australian government had, quote, conducted DNA tests for the sisters and children, issued Australian passports for them and sent a delegation to accompany the families from the camp in Australia. Does that not prove your government was actively involved?
Assistant Minister: Again, we provided no assistance. Me, as a member of the government and other Ministers have provided no assistance to these individuals whatsoever. The law has to be applied, Pete. We can't avoid the operation of the Australian Passports Act. That's a requirement that has to be met regardless of who is in government.
Stefanovic: Even if it's aside from the passport. I'm just trying to work out what your involvement is. Because if a delegation has been sent to accompany the families, I mean, does that not show there is more of an involvement from your government?
Assistant Minister: Well, I've had no involvement with this. I have had no advice or not been involved in making decisions regarding this. And I'm aware that no other member of our government has provided any assistance. The only actions that we have taken, the only actions that we have taken as Ministers and a government has been to issue a temporary exclusion order to an individual on the advice of our security and its other.
Stefanovic: So, you're not aware of any delegation?
Assistant Minister: I'm not aware of any delegation.
Stefanovic: So, here's the issue. Tony Burke has firm form here and your government too, by extension. Last year there was a denial. Then it was revealed there were secret talks held with Save the Children and a public servant was told to leave the room, you might remember that story. Does that not always seem to be an effort to keep the public in the dark?
Assistant Minister: Again, there's been no assistance provided by a member of our government. The law has been applied in this situation and the law has to be applied regardless of who is in government. And when we receive advice about excluding individuals, then we acted very quickly and we've excluded them. If there's evidence that they've been involved in committing crimes, then they'll be arrested and prosecuted as well.
Stefanovic: Alright, so when do you expect them all to return home? Barring, barring the one with the temporary exclusion order?
Assistant Minister: I've got no idea, no idea whatsoever. Again, our government's not been involved with providing assistance or this operation at all.
Stefanovic: The one with the temporary exclusion order, can you confirm if she had a child or not?
Assistant Minister: I can't provide individual details because the legislation doesn't allow us to do that. But you need to know that exclusion orders can only apply to anyone that's over the age of 14 years of age.
Stefanovic: OK, we're out of time, but Matt, thank you as always for your time. Chat again next week.