Peter Stefanovic, Host: Joining us live on this Monday morning, the Assistant Foreign Minister, Matt Thistlethwaite, the Liberal Senator, Maria Kovacic. Good morning to you both. Maria, first to you. How would this apply?
Maria Kovacic, Liberal Senator for NSW: Good morning, Pete. I think the most important thing for everyone to understand is that our priority is to keep Australians safe. That is what we want to do. We want to ensure that people who leave our country and go to terrorist hotspots, people who go there to support terrorist organisations or to support Islamic State or organisations or other terror-listed organisations, and then who actually commit crimes over there, that they can't come back to Australia. The government has been very unclear about what is going on here with this cohort of 34 individuals. They've initially said they're not assisting in their repatriation. There is no repatriation. They're coming of their own accord. The government is only doing what it has to apply the law in terms of issuing passports. Well, I've got a news flash for the government. They are the government, they can change the law. If the law is not strong enough to keep Australians safe and to keep people out who actually hate Australian values and hate the Australian way of life and who have left our country to fight for an alternate way of life, then we should change those laws. We have told the government, they know that we are here to support them, to strengthen laws to keep Australians safe. They're prevaricating, they're not telling us the truth. Our understanding is they've been in conversations with non-government organisations for months and months, like Save the Children. And we also understand that they've been in communication with the New South Wales State Government on what will happen when these individuals return. So, what we need are some straight answers which we are not getting from the Albanese Labor Government, in particular from the Prime Minister himself, and from Minister Burke.
Stefanovic: Ok, well, let's get your response to all of that, Matt, would you support this policy by the Coalition?
Matt Thistlethwaite, Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade: Well, we haven't seen any legislation yet and obviously, it'll go through our normal Caucus processes. But I think that what the Coalition is proposing really misses the mark. The issue here is the individuals, and this legislation doesn't target those individuals. And the Coalition have a record when it comes to this because they allowed 40 ISIS fighters and their partners to return to Australia. What we have done is make sure that the law is as tough as it possibly can be. And we're applying that. That's why we are able to exclude one of those individuals, because there's advice from the security and intelligence agencies that they may pose a risk. So, we've got some of the toughest laws in Australia. They were put in place by the Coalition. We're applying the laws that were put in place by the Coalition. So, any proposal to change that we'll have a look at. But it misses the mark because it doesn't go to the core of the problem, and that is the individuals who've gone over there and potentially been involved in terrorist activities.
Stefanovic: Ok, well, we'll get your response to that too, Maria, but my understanding is that this will apply to charities and individuals, including Sydney doctor Jamal Rifi, who's reported to be involved with the current cohort of ISIS Brides. Is that right?
Kovacic: Well, the detail of that will be there in due course, but I think the important things to note here and in response to Matt's comment that it misses the mark, well, it's actually wrong. This government is missing the mark of what the issues are here. They're missing the mark on the current geopolitical environment, and they're missing the mark in relation to what happened in Bondi just a couple of months ago. I think the reality of that is something the government needs to stop and consider for a moment. We don't even know whether any pre-exclusion orders have been considered here. We know there's one individual that's been deemed high risk. How is it that all of the people who've gone to the same place that did the same thing and want to come back at the same time and have been in the same camp, only one of those individuals is now deemed high risk. And I think Australians are sick of hearing from this government what previous Liberal Governments did. What they actually want to hear from this government, is what they are going to do while they're in charge to keep Australians safe.
Stefanovic: So, Maria, just back to the point though. I mean, the reporting on this by The Daily Telegraph this morning suggests that you would prosecute organisations and people facilitating the return of those linked to terrorist organisations. So, would that bring in your charities, such as Save the Children? Would that bring in individuals living like Dr Rifi out of Sydney, who's reported to have helped the last cohort? Would they be in trouble, is that your understanding?
Kovacic: Well, as I've said already, I think the detail of that will come through. I think what's really important to understand is the fundamental basis of our policy will be to keep Australians safe and to ensure that individuals who facilitate or assist terrorist organisations have questions to answer and will have to comply with those elements of the law if they are to return to our country. And our view is strongly held that if you act against the interests of Australia, if you are involved in organisations that are contradictory to the Australian way of life, then you have no place here. And I think that's completely fair and reasonable.
Stefanovic: So, how do you feel about that, Matt, if organisations and individuals are targeted, that might not be picked up in the current legislation?
Assistant Minister: Well, I think, Pete, that Maria's just demonstrated that this is a stunt. She can't even provide the details of who's captured by this legislation. So, how can that be considered by the Parliament when we don't know how the details will operate? Australians need to know this. Under the previous Coalition Government, ISIS fighters and their partners were allowed into Australia. We've toughened that up. We're saying, no, it's not an automatic passage, that the laws will be applied such that if anyone is advised by the security and intelligence agencies to have been involved in potential terrorist activities, they'll be excluded. And we're going to exclude someone. So, we're actually taking a tougher stand than the Coalition took.
Stefanovic: Ok, just before we go, Matt --
Kovacic: Excluding one individual who has done exactly the same thing as other individuals. Yeah, that's the stunt, Matt --
Assistant Minister: More than you did.
Stefanovic: I'm out of time. But, Matt, if you've got 30 seconds, were you aware that Donald Trump was about to hike tariffs? Are you able to explain if that's something we'll be able to get a carve out from at all, or is that too early to know at this stage?
Assistant Minister: Well, this tariff hike is unjustified. It comes about as a result of the Supreme Court decision in the United States which found that the tariffs were illegal. We'll seek to negotiate with the United States. These aren't the actions of a mate. We've had a very good relationship with the United States administration and the government, and we've been pretty successful as a government in ensuring that Australia has some of the lowest tariffs of anywhere in the world. We'll continue that tradition of negotiating to ensure that we protect Australian producers and Australians jobs.
Stefanovic: Ok, Matt, Maria, thank you as always. We'll see you again next week.