Laura Tchilinguirian, host: Recent disruptions to the global economy caused by the closure of the Strait of Hormuz have sparked concerns other crucial waterways could become similar chokepoints. One of the areas of concern is the north of the Natuna Sea in Indonesian waters just below the South China Sea. China claims it has rights to fish in parts of Indonesia's exclusive economic zone, and the area has seen confrontations between the two nations navies. Assistant Foreign Affairs Minister Matt Thistlethwaite has just returned from Indonesia and is with us now. Thank you for your time this afternoon.
Matt Thistlethwaite, Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade: G'day, Laura.
Tchilinguirian: Now, what kind of impact could the closure of those waters have on Australia if it were to happen?
Assistant Minister: Well, it would have a dramatic impact on Australia and Indonesia. We're both island nations. We both rely on freedom of navigation and open shipping lanes for much of our commerce. Many of Australia's exports head north from our shores to nations like Indonesia and beyond. And many of Indonesia's imports and exports will head through that important strait of water as well. So, given what's going on in the Middle East, I was highlighting the fact that we need to be prepared for situations such as that. And that's the importance of the Jakarta Treaty, that it elevates our relationship to a new level of cooperation on defence and security, particularly around maritime security and open and free shipping.
Tchilinguirian: So, this treaty will guarantee protected free movement in the region?
Assistant Minister: Well, the treaty elevates the relationship to a new level of cooperation. It means that we'll have a greater degree of training between our two militaries. Exercises such as Keris Woomera that has been undertaken between the Australian and Indonesian navy will increase. They'll be participating in Talisman Sabre and other operations such as that, where we train for such scenarios. And this is the strongest the relationship around maritime security and defence has ever been between Australia and Indonesia.
Tchilinguirian: Now, it's not just an issue in the Middle East. Earlier this year, Indonesia's finance minister suggested tolls could be levied on ships using the strait that connects the Indian Ocean and the Pacific Ocean. Is something like this seen as a realist possibility in government ranks?
Assistant Minister: Well, it was pleasing to hear from the ministerial representatives that I met with in foreign affairs and trade from Indonesia that they're committed, like we are, to upholding the law of the sea, the UNCLOS convention, and maintaining free and open shipping, because our economies rely so heavily on that being the case. So, that was very pleasing. And this new treaty will elevate that relationship to ensure that there's increased cooperation, we'll be embedding an Indonesian military officer in the First Brigade in Australia. There'll be increased training and exercises between our nations. And a particular focus, Laura, on deeper engagements amongst younger members of the Australian Defence Force and the Indonesian Defence Force, so that we're building those relationships over time and that those relationships will be stronger in the future.
Tchilinguirian: How important is this treaty after China conducted its ballistic missile test in the Pacific last week, Matt Thistlethwaite?
Assistant Minister: Yeah, that's a point that I made in my speech to the foreign policy community in Indonesia, that actions such as that destabilise the region and are not welcomed. And it's been highlighted in the fact that Australia has been working with our Pacific neighbours quite strongly recently. We announced last week a new agreement, the Ocean of Peace Alliance with Fiji, and there's scope for other Pacific nations to join that. But this is a focus of our government to work on cooperative relationships with nations to the north of Australia, like Papua New Guinea, like Indonesia, through important treaties such as this, to ensure that we're cooperating as best as we possibly can around maintaining free and open shipping and peace and stability within our region.
Tchilinguirian: Iran has learnt the power it has in closing the Strait of Hormuz. And even if a peace deal there is reached with the United States, it has shown it could do it again at a moment's notice. What is our government doing to protect Australia if that happens again?
Assistant Minister: Well, that's the importance of these relationships and these treaties. They highlight cooperation, they highlight working together and they elevate the relationship to a new level. We've seen just how devastating the closure of the Strait of Hormuz has been for the Australian economy. It's affected the Indonesian economy, that was evident in the discussions that I had up there this week. And indeed the international economy. And we're all paying the price for it. That's why we want to see this ceasefire in the strait hold and the strait reopen to normal shipping as quickly as possible. And we need to make sure that we have the relationships in place to maintain free and open shipping elsewhere in the world, because it's so important to Australia.
Tchilinguirian: Just yesterday, Indonesia's President Prabowo accepted an invitation to visit Tehran. Are there any concerns about building closer security ties with a nation that also maintains close ties with Iran?
Assistant Minister: Well, Indonesia is a sovereign nation. They're certainly entitled to make decisions regarding their future and they have alliances with nations. We don't seek to disrupt that. An important part of the Jakarta Treaty is that the cooperation and the elevated training and exercises is all subject to domestic processes. So, we don't seek to intervene in a sovereign nation's decisions. What we are seeking to do is work with one of our nearest and dearest neighbours on greater cooperation to ensure that we all have a vested interest in maintaining peace and stability in our region.
Tchilinguirian: If I could also ask you, while I've got you, just on the Prime Minister's push to impose standards for AI companies, will imposing these regulations discourage companies from investing in Australia?
Assistant Minister: No, I don't believe it will. I think that many AI companies are seeing Australia as a very attractive place for investment. And also part of this strategy released by the Prime Minister is the notion that Australia becomes an AI capital for Southeast Asia, particularly data centre investment. But what we're doing is ensuring that we do it the Australian way, that there are a set of national standards that are put in place that reflect the views and the values of the Australian people around protecting the environment, the protection of Australian artists, intellectual property, all to be maintained by a new division within the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet to oversee these new standards.
Tchilinguirian: And how soon are we going to, how soon is it going to be before we get real details of that and get a real understanding of what's happening?
Assistant Minister: Yeah, so we'll now undertake a consultation, importantly, with the States and Territories through National Cabinet. I think that that's probably going to take the better part of this year with the view to introducing some legislation in the first half of next year to establish the standards. We'll do some consultation with the Australian public. That's very important as well, so that we're reflecting the views and the wishes of the Australian people in putting these standards together.
Tchilinguirian: That technology moves pretty quickly. Can we keep up?
Assistant Minister: I think we can. It does move very, very quickly and it's incredible the investments that are occurring internationally into artificial intelligence. I think every Australian is now using it in some form of another on a daily basis. So, it is moving very quickly. But these standards and this national approach will ensure we keep pace with that technological advancement. But at the same time, we maintain the expectations of the Australian people, particularly around the protection of the hard work of Australian artists and content creators. The environmentalist standards associated with building a data centre, particularly ensuring water efficiency that they're using their own power and they're not drawing power from the grid, and that their connection costs associated with energy don't impact the domestic bills of Australian consumers. They're all expectations that I think the Australian people would have. They'd like to see investment in AI, but they want guardrails. And that's exactly what we do. We're putting these guardrails in place.
Tchilinguirian: Well, Singapore is investing a billion dollars annually in retraining their workers to deal with the rise of AI. Is our government open to funding programs like that?
Assistant Minister: Well, I think that most corporations are doing it themselves. They're funding the necessary training, they're funding the necessary investment in new software and techniques to adapt to artificial intelligence. I certainly know from a government perspective, many of our staff have been trained in how to utilise AI, but subject, importantly, to privacy considerations around the use of constituents, data and information. That's very that there are guidelines and guardrails in place for that. And that's why we're doing this properly. We're consulting with the Australian people and we'll put those important national standards in place to make sure that Australians can benefit from AI, but they benefit in a way that is ethical and that maintains standards that Australians expect.
Tchilinguirian: Matt Thistlethwaite, thank you very much for speaking with us this afternoon.
Assistant Minister: My pleasure. Thanks, Laura.