Melissa Clarke, Host: Well, there's certainly going a lot, a lot going on around the world and we're seeing Australia's role in that. So, to talk about some of these issues, I'm joined by Matt Thistlethwaite, who is the Assistant Foreign Minister. Thanks for being with me on Afternoon Briefing.
Matt Thistlethwaite, Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade: G'day, Mel.
Clarke: Look, I just want to start with this anniversary of the horrendous attacks on October 7, two years ago. What are your reflections on where we are now two years on?
Assistant Minister: Well, it's an anniversary we wish we didn't have to commemorate, but unfortunately we do. And my thoughts today are with the Jewish people of Australia. Many of them live in my electorate and I've heard the stories about relatives who were killed on October 7, friends who are still detained, and the anxiety and despair that that's created in the local community. So, today we come together as a nation to unite to support them and to let them know that we're with them. And, of course, to condemn the shocking antisemitism that the community's had to face in the last couple of years. And that's why our government's acted strongly to try and combat that here in Australia.
Clarke: What did you feel when you saw pictures of that billboard in Melbourne this morning that had been graffitied with support for Hamas? How do you feel when you see that?
Assistant Minister: Well, I think it's disgusting. I think it's completely unacceptable. But what I don't get is that people who are advocating for that, I don't think it does their service or their cause any good. I think it just turns the average Australian off. The cause for which they are trying to advocate. It's completely insensitive. And on a day like today, when we are commemorating what did occur. I mean, 1200 people lost their lives. Innocent people were going about their lives. Many of them were at a party, at a music festival. You can't get any more innocent than that. They lost their lives. It was a terrorist attack. We condemn terrorism in any form. And today we remember and commemorate them. It should be about remembering them, not making political points like that.
Clarke: There are many Jewish Australians who are very worried about the increase of antisemitism that we have seen in Australia. And I've heard numerous organisations representing Jewish Australians ask the government to respond more fulsomely to the report we had from the antisemitism envoy and to adopt the recommendations she's made. The government's looked at it, but you haven't agreed to adopt those recommendations. Why not?
Assistant Minister: Well, there's quite a few recommendations there that we're working through. We've also had the Islamophobia report. We want to work on them together. You don't sort of single out a law to apply to one group. We hope that it applies to all Australians and we want to strengthen the laws for all Australians so that they can live peacefully and feel that they can walk down the street, go to their workplace, go to their school and feel safe. So, we'll take our time and make sure we get it right.
Clarke: But there is an intention to change laws or?
Assistant Minister: Well, we're still working through. There's recommendations to change –
Clarke: There's a lot of recommendations.
Assistant Minister: There's recommendations to change laws and we'll work through those. We'll work through. They cut across respective and a number of government departments and the various Ministers are working with the Prime Minister's office on responding to those in due course.
Clarke: Do we have a time frame on that?
Assistant Minister: I can't tell you what the timeframe is, but we're working through those recommendations and we'll respond accordingly. But we have strengthened a lot of laws in Australia, particularly the hate speech laws. We've criminalised the Nazi salute, antisemitic symbols. We've set up several operations with the Australian Federal Police. In NSW, in my state, it's the largest police operation that we've had since the Sydney Olympics. And in my local community, I've established a local group working with presidents and rabbis from shuls, with local Jewish schools, with elected representatives and the local police to keep the community safe. And that's been working. Thankfully, it's been reducing those incidents. So, we're working at a local level and a federal level to protect the Jewish community.
Clarke: We just heard before from the sibling, Surya McEwen, whose sibling is one of the seven Australians detained in in Israel, having been aboard that flotilla trying to deliver aid to Gaza. You heard him just then saying he's not getting any information. He doesn't know what's going on. Can you give us an update of the status of those seven Australians?
Assistant Minister: Yeah. Well, obviously our thoughts are with those Australians and our consular staff on the ground in Israel are working around the clock to ensure that they're treated with dignity and respect and importantly, that they're released and returned to Australia as quickly as possible.
Clarke: So, they’re all in detention now?
Assistant Minister: As far as I'm aware, they are detained. They're seven Australians, and our consular staff have been to visit them and are working with the Israeli authorities to have them released and returned to Australia as quickly as possible.
Clarke: Have they been treated appropriately?
Assistant Minister: Well, we've called on Israel to abide by international law and to treat the detainees humanely.
Clarke: Have they not been doing that?
Assistant Minister: Well, we don't comment on individual consular cases for good reason, but we have –
Clarke: There’s seven of them so we don't have to go into any particular individual.
Assistant Minister: Yes, and we're making sure that we tell the Israeli Government and the Israeli policing authorities that these people should be treated with respect and they should uphold international law.
Clarke: Has there been any discussion with the Israeli ambassador here about the seven detained individuals?
Assistant Minister: I haven't had a discussion with the Israeli ambassador, but we've certainly made our views known to the Israeli Government through our consular staff in the Middle East, that these people should be treated in accordance with international law. But most importantly, we want to see them return to Australia as quickly as possible. I will say, Mel, as well, we have been saying to Australians, don't go to the region, it's not safe, it's a war zone and there is a risk of detention. So, we have been warning people not to go. Nonetheless, these people have gone and they are now detained. And we as a government are working through our officials as quickly as possible to ensure that they are treated humanely and that they return to Australia safely.
Clarke: Can I ask you about other issues of people coming back to Australia, and that's some of the ISIS brides and their children that have returned to Australia in recent days. Why isn't the government willing to say how many people have returned to Australia in this situation?
Assistant Minister: Well, a lot of those people would be Australian citizens, so they have a right to return to Australia. Our government hasn't provided any assistance or anything like that, aside from the normal assistance that any Australian gets returning to their homelands.
Clarke: The Opposition says that you have open to you, the option of having an exclusion order put on these individuals, that the laws are in place that allow you to do that and the government's chosen not to.
Assistant Minister: Well, we don't comment again on individual circumstances. We do that with all of our consular cases generally.
Clarke: But it's fair. But it's fair to say that the government hasn't issued any temporary exclusion orders in the last two months.
Assistant Minister: Yeah and again, I can't go into the individual circumstances. The law exists and the law –
Clarke: But has it been utilised, doesn't go to any particular individual that we can name or point to, or we don't even know the size of the cohort because we don't have that information, so we're not identifying anyone by simply saying, has a temporary exclusion order been used or applied at all any time in the last few months.
Assistant Minister: And there are no special circumstances that have been granted to these individuals. The normal laws that apply to every Australian will apply to these people as well. And again, I reiterate the point that Australian citizens have the right to return to this country, unless, of course, they are facing a charge or detention in another state. And we're not aware of that in these circumstances. So, the normal laws will apply.
Clarke: I do want to ask you about immigration because that's one of your areas you’re an Assistant Minister for Immigration as well. We've seen the Opposition have quite an internal debate about how to reduce immigration levels. That's the opposition's policy here. The government's keeping the intake of temporary migrants the same as we did last year. Was it a mistake not to lower it, given how much community concern there is about the pressure that a rising population puts on infrastructure and housing?
Assistant Minister: Before we make these decisions about the level of migration, we consult with the states and territories, but importantly, we consult with the business community as well. And what the business community have been saying is that they're crying out for skilled labour, particularly in rural and regional Australia. And three quarters of those migrant numbers will be skilled migrants that will be travelling to Bourke, to rural Western Australia, to work in the resources sector, because we need that labour. That's about ensuring that we're enhancing the productivity of our country and creating jobs for Australians. So, we think we've got the balance right. It's the appropriate level because it's based on that consultation with the states and territories and with the business community.
Clarke: Do you think the debate that's currently playing out in a political level about immigration is being done with enough nuance?
Assistant Minister: Well, I think that most Australians understand that our nation was built on migration going back to the populate or perish days. And the great leap forward that we saw in infrastructure development and economic development in Australia was built on migration. And I think most Australians respect and understand that. More than 50% of our population was now either born overseas or have one of their parents born overseas. So, migrants make a fantastic contribution to our country and that's why we condemned Jacinta Nampijinpa Price trying to single out the Indian community or other communities, because these are people that come here, they work, they pay their taxes, they make a wonderful contribution to our society and that's something that we want to encourage.
Clarke: Alright, Matt Thistlethwaite, we've covered a few issues today. Thanks very much for coming to the bench for Afternoon Briefing.
Assistant Minister: Thanks, Mel.