Peter Stefanovic, Host: Well, the final sitting week of the year is about to begin in Canberra. The priority for the government over the next few days is to pass its environment laws which until now has been friendless in the Senate. Murray Watt has offered some concessions to both the Coalition and The Greens, though will either bite? We shall see. Joining us this morning, the Assistant Foreign Minister, Matt Thistlethwaite, the Liberal Senator, Maria Kovacic. Good morning to you both. So, Maria, I'll start with you. If heavy penalties for businesses which violate the new laws are reduced, would that be enough to win your support?
Maria Kovacic, Liberal Senator for NSW: Look, we've been very clear with the government and with Minister Watt about what we need. We've written to him, our leader, Sussan Ley, our Shadow Minister, Angie Bell, outlined seven key areas of concern. As we've said from the outset, we are very happy to be constructive in relation to this. We have those concerns that are outlined, as an example we have concerns in relation to the proposed EPA and what its powers and accountability look like. This is a new authority, so there is, you know, nothing to sort of suggest what it's actually going to do. And I think it's not unreasonable for us to want to have an understanding of that. In particular, given that it appears that there is no Ministerial oversight and there probably should be. You know, there are issues with definitions of particular terms like net gains and unacceptable impacts. Again, not an issue with those as they stand. But what do they actually mean? This is a 1,500-page piece of legislation. There is a lot of detail in this and it's right for us to ask questions about it. And in what is pretty much a trademark of this government, they are looking to ramp that through in the final sitting week of the year.
Stefanovic: So, do you agree with that? Murray Watt, he's coming up with a program, so I'll have all these questions for Murray Watt, Matt, but I mean, is this thing rushed? I mean, are you better off just taking your time, leaving it through Christmas in the new year and then making it a next year problem?
Matt Thistlethwaite, Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade: Pete, this has been on the table for five years. The original report, which was put together by Professor Samuels, was commissioned by Sussan Ley as the Environment Minister in the previous government. If there's someone that knows this well in the Parliament, it's Sussan Ley and it's been there for five years. And the point about it is, every time we delay, every month we delay, the approval process for a project continues to increase, and that's why we think that it's unsustainable at the moment and there is some urgency to get this legislation through. The business community has said that they want certainty, and they want to know how the approval process is going to work. Our bill provides that. It's gone through the House of Representatives. Now, we're willing to negotiate. We'll negotiate with both the Coalition and the Greens, but the laws have gone through the House of Representatives and whoever can come with a proposal that's closest to what's gone through the House of Representatives, and we'll try and reach an agreement with them.
Stefanovic: All right, Murray Watt again coming up --
Kovacic: Just something to add to that, Pete --
Stefanovic: Okay, yeah, he's coming up in 15 minutes, so you add to that Maria.
Kovacic: Yeah, yeah. Three years of the last term and six months of this term. So, three and a half years this government has had of that five years to put this legislation through. It is being rammed through in the last sitting week of the year. I think that is the question. As I said before, that's the trademark of this government. When they don't want to talk about something, they ram it through when there's little time.
Stefanovic: Okay, yeah, fair enough.
Assistant Minister: They've had the legislation for six months. And that's the point. It's been three years. Yes, that's right.
Stefanovic: I'll put that to Murray Watt shortly. I just want to get to this other story because there's a stench, I feel with this BOM, Bureau of Meteorology, redesign coming in at almost $100 million. Before you, Matt, Maria, what are your thoughts on this?
Kovacic: Well, it was originally estimated to cost around $4 million for the redesign of this website. And look, this is an important website. Farmers and regional communities rely on the data from BOM to keep them safe and to make decisions around what they're going to do on a daily basis and to protect their stock. Most Australians have the BoM app on their phone. I certainly do. It's an important piece of website infrastructure. However, for the cost to blow out to almost $100 million is extraordinary and something that this government needs to explain as to how this has happened, why it has happened, and how the spending has gotten so out of control. Because once again, we have, as another trademark of this government, excessive spending. Something that's taken too long and cost a lot more than it should have.
Stefanovic: I think these are reasonable questions, too, Matt. How do you defend that sort of expenditure on a website?
Assistant Minister: Well, you can't, And I think that that cost blowout is ridiculous. And that's why Murray Watt has launched an investigation to try and find out how this has occurred. The BOM website is pretty important. I use it regularly to see what's going on with the surf and where the good swells are going to be. But more importantly, farmers use it on a daily basis to run their businesses. So, it is an important piece of government infrastructure. And that cost blowout is ridiculous and simply unacceptable.
Stefanovic: All right, Maria and Matt, good to see you on this Monday morning. Have a fun week.