Peter Stefanovic, Host: Joining us live, the Assistant Foreign Minister, Matt Thistlethwaite, the Liberals' Senator Maria Kovacic. Good morning to you both. Matt, I'll start with you, might you have to lean on Origin and the New South Wales Government to extend Eraring?
Matt Thistlethwaite, Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade: Well, the AEMO report, Pete, indicates that there is enough renewables in the system to make a steady transition, and that's the important thing. Australians are taking up rooftop solar and batteries at the rate of knots, 135,000 households have now installed batteries as a result of our rebate, the Solar Sharer Scheme will provide opportunities for households that can't access solar to access that in the future. So, there's enough renewables in the system, but the report does indicate that there's a concern about stability, and the New South Wales Government is responding to that, they're investing in new technology to provide that stability as those coal‑fired power stations come off, and more renewables enter into the system.
Stefanovic: Yep.
Assistant Minister: The other thing we're doing, Pete, is building more gas‑fired capacity to provide that firming stability. So, for instance, the Kurri Kurri Gas Plant is being built in the Hunter Valley, that will provide 660 megawatts of additional firming capacity. So transitional renewables, firming capacity underwriting it with gas.
Stefanovic: The problem is that tech is not going to be there until 2028 though when it comes to managing everything like you just explained. So, do you feel as though Eraring's going to have to be extended? There is the option to do so until 2029, but do you expect that to happen?
Assistant Minister: Well, Kurri Kurri should come online before then. So, we're pretty confident that there will be enough capacity in the system to provide that firming and to ensure that stability in the system. The New South Wales Government is fast tracking those synchronous condensers which provide that stability ‑‑
Stefanovic: Yeah.
Assistant Minister: But we're pretty confident that there will be enough capacity in the system to provide that firm capacity.
Stefanovic: So, Eraring won't need to be extended, is that what you're saying?
Assistant Minister: Well, look, Eraring is not owned by the government, it's owned by the private sector.
Stefanovic: That's right.
Assistant Minister: And there's nothing stopping the company that owns Eraring extending it. We're not going to stop that. If they wish to extend it, that's a call for them. But we're confident that we've put in place the measures to make sure that there is enough capacity to make that transition.
Stefanovic: Okay.
Assistant Minister: If Eraring stays open, it can, it's a matter for the owners of that power station.
Stefanovic: That's true.
Maria Kovacic, Liberal Senator for NSW: Can I say something to that, Pete, please? The Labor Government does actually own this Labor policy, they may not own the coal‑fired power stations, but they do own this botched energy policy. And to say that the Government is pretty confident is just not good enough, it doesn't cut it. You should be absolutely certain that your energy policy is going to deliver a stable baseload power, and they cannot do that. This is a catastrophe for Labor's energy policy.
Stefanovic: But like Matt explained, Maria, there's enough renewables come into the system, it's just the tech that's not quite there, and is not going to be until 2028. So would you expect something like Eraring to have to be extended, and it is a call for Origin, that there is the option to extend to 2029. Should they take that up? To you, Maria.
Kovacic: Oh, to me. Yes, look, absolutely. Look, I think that they do need to do something. Ultimately they don't have the ability to deliver the stability that the grid requires. Australians currently have got the highest energy prices that they have ever seen. We have a scenario where we have the biggest collapse in living standards in the developed world, and Labor is now saying despite paying really, really high energy prices Australian households and Australian businesses are going to have to cop the fact that they may have blackouts. That is entirely unacceptable, and the Albanese Labor Government has to explain to Australians exactly why that is the case.
Stefanovic: So, is that on you, Matt, is that on your Government that the tech isn't there? Should it have been there by now to be able to manage that transition properly?
Assistant Minister: No, it's not at all. We're putting in place the measures to manage that transition. Pete, in the last government they knew that coal‑fired power stations were going to close. The Abbott, Turnbull and Morrison Governments knew that 24 of the 28 coal‑fired power stations were going to close over the next decade. But they only put in place an additional 3.8 megawatts ‑ sorry, gigawatts of new capacity coming into the system. We're delivering 18 gigawatts new capacity into the system, so we're delivering that new capacity into the system, but we are having to play catch‑up, because there was a period under the previous government where they weren't delivering any new capacity. We're doing that by firming it up with gas, but at the same time the renewables transition is occurring.
Stefanovic: Okay.
Assistant Minister: And that technology will be there to make sure that the grid operates sustainably and is firmed up by gas.
Stefanovic: Okay.
Assistant Minister: So, the transition will occur, and it will occur with certainty.
Stefanovic: All right. I just want to sneak this topic in, because it happened over the weekend, and I want to get your views on it just quickly before we head off to a break. But the Liberal Party has foreshadowed part of its migration policy, it's said to be unveiled in the next few weeks. It wants stronger values tests for aspiring migrants. Matt, I'll start with your reaction to this. I mean I know you had changes put in the immigration policy already. What are your thoughts on what's being announced so far?
Assistant Minister: There is already a test that people have to undertake if they wish to become a permanent ‑‑
Stefanovic: But it's not a very strong one though, right?
Assistant Minister: Well, it is a pretty strong one. You need to know Australian values, you need to know Australian history, and it takes a while for people to undertake that test and to understand and comprehend those values, and we support those tests remaining in place. So, there is a test that's there already, we believe that it's adequate. What the Coalition need to explain is if they are proposing to cut migration, which businesses are going to have to shut, because they can't get enough migrants to work in their businesses. Two‑thirds of the migration program in Australia is skilled migration.
Stefanovic: Okay.
Assistant Minister: It's tradespeople that are building homes, it's those people that we need working in our aged care facilities and our hospitals.
Stefanovic: Okay.
Assistant Minister: So which facilities are going to shut because they can't get enough workers?
Stefanovic: Can you provide any more detail on that, Maria?
Kovacic: We're still working through the final details of what our policy platform will look like. Senator Jonathon Duniam, the Shadow Minister in the Home Affairs and Senator Paul Scarr are working very closely on that. And that policy will do two things: it will, number one, ensure that we actually have the migrant intake that Australia can sustainably handle at this point in time, but also that that migrant intake meets those skills gaps that we do have, and that is what hasn't happened over the last number of years.
Stefanovic: All right. Well, there are some questions though from Matt that you'll have to answer once you firm up in your policy. But Maria, Matt, thank you so much, I've gone over, but we've got to go to a break.