Kieran Gilbert, Host: Let's bring in the Assistant Foreign Affairs Minister, Matt Thistlethwaite. You've heard Michaelia Cash scathing in her assessment of the government's position and she's not alone in criticising, why is the government right to do what it's done overnight in New York?
Matt Thistlethwaite, Assistant Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade: G'day, Kieran. We're joining international partners in saying that enough is enough, that we want to bring this war to an end. We want the Israeli hostages released and we want a lasting solution. And the Australian Government, the Australian people see the best way to achieve that is to have two distinct countries, Israel and Palestine, behind internationally recognised borders, living and coexisting peacefully beside each other, both with the implicit recognition that each state has the right to exist and that those people that live in each state respectively have the right to freedom, to democracy and to access to the rule of law. That's the outcome that we're seeking and we're not alone. We're joining many nations throughout the world in seeking to achieve that through the United Nations.
Gilbert: This week, Michaelia Cash is pointing to a story that's emerged in the last few hours where Hamas militants have publicly executed so called collaborators blindfolded. You talk about access to the rule of law. There's nothing like that under Hamas. Is this premature?
Assistant Minister: Hamas is a disgusting terrorist organisation and that's why we've said that Hamas can't be involved in the administration of that Palestinian state. We've sought and been given commitments from the Palestinian Authority about a reform process that they will enter into to hold democratic elections, to demilitarise, to reform the schooling system and importantly to bring about a democratic state and one in which people do have access to the rule of law and they do have changes that are brought about because of that.
Gilbert: Is it in large part trying to pressure Israel in terms of things like the settlement building? Is that what this is all about?
Assistant Minister: Well, there's been plenty of resolutions from the United Nations where Australia and other nations have declared the settlement activity illegal under international law. And that's been a long-standing position that Australia has had. The international community has had and has called on the Netanyahu Government to cease that settlement activity. It's provocative and it's contrary to international law and a number of UN resolutions. And that's why we believe that the best way to achieve a lasting outcome here, not just a temporary ceasefire, but a permanent ceasefire and a final resolution to this issue that's been going on for hundreds of years, is to have two distinct states that are both recognised by both countries, and the people can live peacefully and democratically behind those internationally recognised borders.
Gilbert: The Executive Council of Australian Jewry has released a statement coordinated with the British counterparts and their Canadian counterparts. I'll read a little bit of it and get your reaction. It says the decision to recognise a Palestinian state in the present circumstances has no realistic prospect of achieving its stated aims, abandons the hostages and the people of Gaza to the continuing atrocities of Hamas, and will only serve to make the conflict even worse, is their view. Why, why do you disagree with that assessment in terms of, at the very least, abandoning the hostages?
Assistant Minister: Because, Kieran, this has been the world's perennial conflict. It has gone on for hundreds and hundreds of years. And there have been outcomes in the past where there has been ceasefires and peace. And it's always been claimed that this will deliver that lasting peace and that conflict won't restart. But it restarts again and unfortunately, innocent people lose lives. And that's what we've seen on both sides, from both Israelis and Palestinians, that innocent lives have been lost. And I think that the international community has now come together and said, enough is enough. This has got to stop. This has to stop. And the only way that the international community believes that this can occur is if there are two states with internationally recognised borders and the right for people to live safely in those borders. Now, we want to see those hostages released as quickly. And that's why we've said that the Netanyahu Government's decision to try and annex Gaza City is the wrong one, because it's not going to produce that outcome, one would think, of having those hostages released. We want to see the hostages released just as much as anyone, but we also want to see a lasting peace, to finally bring this conflict to an end.
Gilbert: I know you've got to get going, just quickly, the Prime Minister might still be having that, that formal bilateral with Donald Trump, according to what he told Andrew Clennell, he certainly didn't rule it out. Is there a risk, though, that this issue of all might derail it?
Assistant Minister: Well, we've had several phone calls between the Prime Minister and the President over recent times, and I think you've got to say, from Australia's perspective, there have been quite successful engagements. When you look at the Trump trade policies, no countries fare better than Australia. We've managed to negotiate the lowest level of tariff of any nation and the result of that, Kieran, has actually been that ironically enough Australian exports into the United States have actually increased. So, that's a good thing for Australian exporters, it's a good thing for the Australian economy and Australian jobs. We've had some, some good assurances regarding the continuation of AUKUS and the programs of exchange that have been going on between our two defence forces in relation to that. The engagements between President Trump and Prime Minister Albanese have been successful from Australia's perspective and we would hope that that will continue in the engagements that will occur throughout the week with the United Nations and any formal meeting that occurs into the future.
Gilbert: Assistant Foreign Minister Matt Thistlethwaite, thanks for your time. We'll talk to you soon.
Assistant Minister: Thanks, Kieran.