Patricia Karvelas: Defence Industry Minister Pat Conroy has also been overseas. He's visiting the Solomon Islands, announcing $20 million in support for the island nation to host the next Pacific Islands Forum. I spoke to him a short time ago.
Minister Conroy, welcome to the program.
Minister for Pacific Island Affairs, Pat Conory: Thank you for having me.
Patricia Karvelas: You're in Honiara in the Solomon Islands. The Australian Government is providing a support package to the Solomon Islands. You're providing money for things like security vehicles to help support community policing. Are there any conditions for this support?
Minister Conroy: Not at all. Not at all. If you're referring to the PIF assistance package that I've announced today, which is $8 million to support Solomon Islands hosting the Pacific Islands Forum, that includes the provision of 61 vehicles to transport the leaders throughout the summit. And then importantly, those vehicles will be allocated to the Royal Solomon Islands Police Force and sent out to the regions as a permanent capacity enhancement for the police force as well as some budget support so that the Solomon Islands government can host what is the most important regional event of the year where all the Pacific island leaders, including Prime Minister Albanese, come together to chart the future for our wonderful region.
Patricia Karvelas: Okay, so zero conditions. This is just a support package. No conditions about, for instance, any arrangements with China?
Minister Conroy: Not, not at all. We're providing this assistance. As far as I'm aware, we're the largest logistical supporter of the PIF hosting by the Solomon Islands, and we do this regularly for most PIF hosting countries, recognising the obligation to support them to host a very important thing. There are no conditions on it, we are the primary security partner for Solomon Islands. We are their partner of choice, and it's something that we work hard at every day to make sure we have that trust and confidence.
Patricia Karvelas: Minister, late last year the Australia and the Solomon Islands signed what was a policing agreement for over $190 million. Earlier this year the Solomon Islands Prime Minister told the ABC there'd been some differences between Australia and the Solomons over that money and the arrangements around it. Are those still in negotiations, and what are those differences?
Minister Conroy: Well, we've been very much focused on the implementation of that agreement. I think what Prime Minister Manele was referring to was the standard discussions about how you design that expansion of the Royal Solomon Islands Police Force. And I think it also reflected a debate within the Solomon Islands about was it better to focus on increasing the number of police officers or investing in the infrastructure like the police training centre and police stations in the outlying region. One of - I had many conversations over the last few days with Prime Minister Manele and the Police Minister, and other senior ministers. And our messages is: we're committed to building your sovereign capability. You let us know what you need, and we'll be the partner to invest at $190 million to expand the police force. And that was very well received, and we're getting on with a practical job of helping them expand the police force.
Patricia Karvelas: Okay, so when it comes to expanding it, is it? Have you settled then on whether it'll be the number of police or just infrastructure? You noted there debate. So, what have you settled at?
Minister Conroy: Well, the Solomon Islands Government is still taking that submission through their cabinet process. I expect that to be resolved quickly. We're providing technical assistance on the range of options. But ultimately, this is symbolic of our approach to the Pacific, which is we turn up, we listen and act on the priorities of the Solomon Islands Government like every other Pacific government. So, we expect to hear their priorities shortly about how best to allocate that funding to facilitate the expansion of the police force. And then we're going to get on and partner with them to do that. This is on top of our record levels of security cooperation already, including providing patrol boats and other security assistance. So, this is on top of that. And I'm expecting to be briefed in the next few weeks about what their plans envisage, what their design needs are, and then we're going to get on and deliver it as a good partner does.
Patricia Karvelas: Are there any red lines for us? I mean, they're going through their processes. That makes sense. Has Australia given any red lines, indications of your preference, or any places that you would be concerned and not want that investment to go to?
Minister Conroy: Well, we're reassured by the statements from Prime Minister Manele down that we are their security partner of choice. We're also reassured and support Prime Minister Manele's tiered approach to policing, which he outlined in his visit to Australia, which was Royal Solomon Islands police force first. Then if there's a gap, other Melanesian nations and then the rest of the Pacific filling any other gaps, and we support that. That's consistent with the Pacific Island Forum Leaders Communique, which said that if any Pacific Island nation has a gap in the security, they should ask other Pacific nations first to fill that. And that's something we take seriously, and that's what we do for almost every Pacific Island nation. And so, what the Solomon Islands Government is envisaging is very consistent with that.
Patricia Karvelas: In terms of that tiered approach. Is there room for China if all those options are exhausted?
Minister Conroy: Well, that's a question for each sovereign nation about how they approach it. I've made it very clear that I don't think China should be involved in policing in the Pacific because it's inconsistent with the PIF leaders' views, which is what I repeated to you there. So, I'm intent on implementing the will of the PIF leaders, which is that Pacific policing should be done by the people and police of the Pacific. And that's why our $400 million investment in the Pacific policing initiative last year was so important. That's why we're seeing multinational Pacific policing groups being deployed to places like Samoa for the recent Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting. That's why the Solomon Islands Assistance Force that had police and soldiers from Australia, PNG, Fiji and New Zealand supporting the Solomon Islands and the Pacific games and their elections are so important.
Patricia Karvelas: And so, this preference, Minister, that you've made clear that China shouldn't be part of policing, has that been reiterated on this visit by you?
Minister Conroy: Well, I've made it very clear that that's the view of the Australian government and that we respect the sovereign right of any nation to decide who they partner with. But again, I'm reassured by Prime Minister Manele's commitment that we're their security partner of choice, and his tiered approach is consistent with our views. And that's why we are really serious about our undertakings here.
Patricia Karvelas: Minister, on another issue in the defence space, are we now at odds with European leaders who endorse committing to 5 per cent of their economy to security at a meeting of NATO overnight?
Minister Conroy: So, I didn't quite hear the start of that question.
Patricia Karvelas: Well, NATO overnight –
Minister Conroy: Defence spending.
Patricia Karvelas: Yeah, NATO overnight. There was the agreement from European leaders to endorse committing 5 per cent of their GDP to security. Are we at odds now with NATO and Europe?
Minister Conroy: Well, I make the obvious point. We're not a member of NATO.
Patricia Karvelas: No.
Minister Conroy: We face different strategic circumstances. But we've been very clear on a couple of principles. One, the Australian government will determine our defence policy, no one else. And that's what the Australian people expect us to do. Secondly, we're increasing our defence spending to record levels. We're increased our defence budget by $57 billion over the next 10 years, including $10 billion over the next four years to forward estimates. That's the biggest peacetime increase in our defence budget ever. And thirdly, as the Prime Minister said repeatedly, if there's a case to invest in more capabilities, we'll do that, but we're not going to play a numbers game. We're going to respond to the capability needs of the Australian Defence Force and spend the money accordingly. And that's why our approach is much more sensible than the silly approach of the Liberal Party, which was to say we're going to spend $21 billion more during the election campaign. But not have a single idea on what they're going to do it. We're going to do it the proper way, in a considered way to match the sovereign needs of the Australian defence and requirements.
Patricia Karvelas: Katy Gallagher, the Finance Minister, has said today that there's no doubt that, because of the environment that we're in, the strategic environment that we are currently in, that there will be further investments in defence. Does that mean that 2.3 per cent we're going to get to it will be higher than that?
Minister Conroy: Well, first, there's the extra 57 billion that's coming down the pipeline. And Prime Minister Albanese and everyone else has been very clear that if defence, including Richard Marles and myself as the two Defence Ministers in Cabinet, make the case for increased capability, then of course the Australian government will fund that. So, that's what Katy was referring to. And, and that's something that is a matter of common sense. We face incredibly challenging strategic circumstances. That's why we're increasing the defence budget. Importantly, that's why we're accelerating capability, bringing capability forward to make this country safer and employ more Australians. And if a case can be made for more investment, that investment will flow.
Patricia Karvelas: Minister, at the request of NATO and Poland, Royal Australian Air Force aircraft will deploy to Europe in August. I think a hundred ADF personnel will deploy alongside the aircraft. Is this the sort of precursor prelude to a peacekeeping force?
Minister Conroy: I wouldn't engage in hypotheticals like this. This will be the second deployment of the E-7 Wedgetail from my home air force base at Williamtown up to Europe. It did great work in its last rotation and will do great work now. It's the most advanced early warning aircraft in the world. And we've been very clear with key leaders, including Keir Starmer and President Macron, that if a ceasefire, a peace deal can be achieved between Ukraine and Russia, then we would consider being part of a multinational peacekeeping force. But you've got to have peace before you have a peacekeeping force. But Prime Minister Albanese, Richard Marles, myself, Penny Wong have been very clear about that.
Patricia Karvelas: Minister, thanks so much for joining us.
Minister Conroy: Anytime. Thank you very much.