Melissa Clarke: Australia has signed the landmark Nakamal Strategic Pact with Vanuatu after some months of prolonged negotiations. Vanuatu's Prime Minister, Jotham Napat says the agreement is built on mutual trust.
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Jotham Napat: Australia and Vanuatu are close neighbours, trusted partners and enduring friends. Today's meeting reaffirms our said commitment to continue to strengthen the comprehensive partnership between our two countries.
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Melissa Clarke: Vanuatu Prime Minister Jotham Napat speaking at a signing ceremony in Canberra yesterday. Both nations agreed to change some key elements of the deal to bed down the final agreement. At the heart of it, it comes to the issue around Chinese investment in the Pacific and also development support for Vanuatu. Pat Conroy is the Minister for Pacific Island Affairs and Defence Industry. Pat Conroy, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.
Minister for Pacific Island Affairs, Pat Conroy: Thanks for having me.
Melissa Clarke: Now, this agreement will see Vanuatu consult with Australia when it comes to proposed third-party engagement on the country's critical infrastructure. Tell me what that consultation would involve.
Minister Conroy: Well, this is a landmark agreement. It's the first bilateral comprehensive agreement between the two countries. It's got a number of security elements. The first one is confirming Australia as the primary policing partner for Vanuatu. Secondly, prioritising assistance from Australia, New Zealand and France for a humanitarian disaster. Thirdly, Vanuatu enshrining in a legally binding treaty their commitment to no foreign bases, military bases in Vanuatu, and fourthly, committing to no militarisation of infrastructure or foreign interference. So, that's four critical elements that makes Australia safe and brings the countries closer together.
On your question, the thought process there is that when other development partners want to invest in infrastructure in our region, it's important that countries in the Pacific understand what they're getting, understand both the opportunities and also the risks that that poses. So, our requirement to consult is merely talking to us about what they're planning and also us providing planning and technical assistance around that infrastructure.
Melissa Clarke. So, this is consultation before decision-making or before a decision is made on development that relates to critical infrastructure?
Minister Conroy: Absolutely. And it's very dangerous to get into hypotheticals. But these clauses are obviously constructed so that if there's infrastructure that could be potentially militarised, that there's an opportunity through the Nakamal Committee, which is the implementation committee of the treaty, to talk that through so that both parties understand what that infrastructure is and what it doesn't do, how it can be free from foreign interference and how there's no danger of it being militarised, because that's really important in our region. We're in the middle of a great power contest in our region. It's really important that we don't have foreign military bases in the Pacific.
Melissa Clarke: Consultation can mean different things to different people, depending on what they want it to mean. I'm thinking of scenarios in Australian politics where the Government's obliged to consult the Opposition on certain things and sometimes it's just a matter of letting them know what the Government wants to do. How can you be sure that future administrations in charge in Vanuatu will take this consultation process as seriously as you hope it will?
Minister Conroy: Well, there's two elements. Firstly, there's a straight prohibition on military infrastructure, militarisation of infrastructure and foreign interference. So, that's just a straight prohibition, and any issues around implementation of the treaty will be gone through the Nakamal Committee to resolve. Secondly, a key part of the consultation is Australia's obligation to provide technical and planning assistance so that when Vanuatu is looking at infrastructure, it's our privilege and duty to provide advice on how that infrastructure can be built to maintain the security integrity of Vanuatu and their sovereignty. It's really important that they get that technical support because we see all sorts of bad actors, not just nations, but commercial actors that undermine sovereignty around the world.
Melissa Clarke: This is quite a different arrangement from, say, the Falepili Union with Tuvalu, which has a range of provisions around giving Australia mutual agreement on decisions. Take me through why this situation with Vanuatu is at a different point on the spectrum of cooperation than what we have with, say, Tuvalu.
Minister Conroy: Well, the two key fundamental points is that we turn up in the Pacific, we listen, and we act on the priorities of our Pacific partners. That's why we've made such an effort to re-engage in the region and why we've been so successful. So, each country will have different priorities and different approaches. So, that's point number one. Point number two is it was very clear, and Prime Minister Napat said this during the process, that some elements of the Parliament of Vanuatu had concerns that the clauses in the agreement might unintentionally slow down infrastructure investment from other development partners or undermine sovereignty. So, we've tackled this challenge through a different way, through positive obligations rather than prohibitions, saying, yep, as long as it's not militarised or has foreign interference, go ahead and have that infrastructure investment, and we'll provide the technical assistance to make sure that you're free from foreign interference. Because this is a challenge that even Australia faces. And you've seen a number of decisions in this country along those lines as well.
Melissa Clarke: We know that Vanuatu is also negotiating the details of an arrangement with China that will look largely at economic issues but nonetheless go to the depth of their relationship. Do you expect to be able to see the contents of that agreement when it's finalised?
Minister Conroy: Well, Prime Minister Napat said yesterday in the press conference that they would release that, and we welcome it. We always release our agreements, and we call for every other country to release their agreements with their international partners --
Melissa Clarke: This has been an issue with Solomon Islands, who have said they cannot release their agreement with China.
Minister Conroy: Yeah, absolutely. Prime Minister Napat has said that they will release it. And in the Solomon Islands agreement, my understanding is there's a legal prohibition, but that can be waived if both parties agree to it. So, if both parties were open to it, I would certainly encourage that. On Vanuatu, Prime Minister Napat's made it very clear that it's the development agreement. And secondly, any agreement that Vanuatu signed subsequent to Nakamal must be consistent with it. And Nakamal prioritises Australian policing assistance, prohibits foreign military bases. So, any agreement posted has to be consistent with it. And that's why we've got a degree of comfort. And we've been very clear with the Pacific. You can have partnerships with other development partners. We don't claim ownership over the Pacific. We're privileged to be the biggest development partner. But other countries have an interest. They should do it in a way that's consistent with Pacific security, not undermining Pacific security.
Melissa Clarke: You're listening to Radio National Breakfast, where the Minister for Pacific Island Affairs, Pat Conroy, is my guest. Minister, Anthony Albanese is widely expected to sign a new treaty with Fiji next week. Can you confirm that treaty is at the point where it's ready to be signed by leaders?
Minister Conroy: I can confirm that Prime Minister Albanese is travelling to Fiji and the Solomon Islands as part of our huge effort to improve relations with the region that have really paid dividends over the last four years. We're still negotiating the Vuvale Treaty and we're hopeful of concluding it, but I'm not going to get ahead of the Prime Minister, but I'm very confident that our relationship will be even stronger with Fiji. Prime Minister Rabuka and Prime Minister Albanese get on really well. They've had some really good progress. They've both driven the Oceans of Peace concept that Prime Minister Rabuka has pioneered through the Pacific Island Forum. And I'm hopeful that our relationship will get even closer very shortly.
Melissa Clarke: And we've heard the Solomon Islands Prime Minister Matthew Wale talk about the idea of a regional security pact. That's something that the Opposition here has said it supports the idea of. We know that Mr Wale has been discussing that idea with the PNG's Prime Minister James Marape. What's the Australian Government's thinking on that at this point?
Minister Conroy: Well, of course we're open to it. We're always driven by what the Pacific sets as its priorities. But we live every day according to the 2022 PIF Leaders Communique, which said Pacific security must come from within. If there's any gaps in Pacific security, it should be filled by other Pacific countries, including Australia. That's why we've got the alliance with PNG. That's why we've landed landmark treaties with - sorry, with Tuvalu, Nauru and Vanuatu --
Melissa Clarke: -- Papua New Guinea and now Vanuatu --
Minister Conroy: And we're getting on with it. And if the regional agreement is in the interests of the Pacific, then we'll help support that. But ultimately, we're in their hands, and they're all sovereign nations, and we respect that, and that's really important.
Melissa Clarke: Pat Conroy, thanks very much for speaking to me on Radio National Breakfast.
Minister Conroy: Thanks for having me, Mel.