Sally Sara: Let's go to PNG now to speak to the Minister for Defence Industry and Pacific Island Affairs, Pat Conroy. The Prime Minister and several ministerial colleagues are in Port Moresby this morning to mark 50 years since Papua New Guinea became independent.
Pat Conroy, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.
Minister for Pacific Island Affairs, Pat Conroy: Good morning.
Sally Sara: You've heard some of those comments from Senator Matt Canavan, the Nationals Senator. What do you make of that?
Minister Conroy: Well, I think he's condemning Australians to a very bleak future, if he ever got into power. He is symptomatic of an Opposition that's woefully out of touch with both science and the views of Australian people.
The climate report you talked about demonstrates that we need to take action, not just to protect our environment, but also to seize the economic opportunities of the jobs of the future, and that's what the Albanese Government's focused on, seizing those opportunities, creating those well‑paid, high‑skilled jobs while reducing greenhouse gas emissions while the Opposition is just obsessed with talking about itself and tearing itself apart, and it's clear they haven't learnt any of the lessons from the last two elections.
Sally Sara: Has a cost been calculated of doing nothing?
Minister Conroy: Well, you can go back to reports like the Garnaut Report, and every report since that have demonstrated that the cost of inaction is always much more expensive than investments needed to take action on climate change, because as the Prime Minister now has said it's not just about reducing greenhouse gas emissions, it's seizing the economic opportunities that go with it.
Also where in my portfolio's in Defence and the Pacific, this is all about, also about securing our place in the world. We have spent the last three and a half years rebuilding our relationships in the Pacific, relationships that are critical to our security, our place in the region, rebuilding them after the low point that was there because the Coalition Government blocked action on climate change, tried to bully our Pacific neighbours, the Pacific family, and meant that they left a vacuum that other countries sought to fill.
So, this is not just about the environment or economics, it's about national security, and it demonstrates that the Coalition is weak on national security, is weak on the economy and is clearly weak on the environment.
Sally Sara: Liberal frontbencher, Andrew Hastie, has threatened to quit the Liberal front bench if the Coalition commits to Net Zero. What's your reaction to that?
Minister Conroy: Well, I just think it's, again, the Coalition talking about themselves rather than the future of Australia, and I just think the Opposition Leader and her team are in a position where they need to resolve this, they need to support strong action on climate, to not just reduce our emissions, but to grab those jobs of the future and to preserve our place in the world.
Like the conservatives claim to be the party of national security, but they're actually making our position in the world weaker by continuing to undermine Australia's commitment to Net Zero. I'm like many Pacific leaders, and climate change is the number one security threat in the Pacific, including to Australia, it is the number one threat, and if you don't take action on climate change you are not taken seriously in the region or around the world, and that means that gives a leg up to other countries that are fighting for influence in our region.
Sally Sara: Australia's first climate risk assessment is grim reading. How can Labor be taken seriously on managing climate change when decisions are made including the extension of the North West Shelf project?
Minister Conroy: Well, we're committed to and legislated Net Zero by 2050, and we have strong medium‑term targets, and we're confident that we will reduce our greenhouse gas emissions by 43 per cent by 2030, that's a massive change.
Sally Sara: How does it help granting extensions like that?
Minister Conroy: Well, again, the project you talk about is covered by the Safeguards Mechanism and has an obligation to reduce its emissions in line with both our medium‑term target and Net Zero by 2050. It's covered by our strong domestic policies that guarantee emissions will fall.
Sally Sara: But it does lead to emissions.
Minister Conroy: Well, as I said, it's covered by the Safeguards Mechanism, which obliges the facility to reduce its emissions over time in line with our national trajectory.
But let me go back to the broader point. We are cutting emissions, we are on track to achieve 43 per cent emissions reductions by 2030 on the way to Net Zero by 2050. We're working towards 82 per cent renewable energy by 2030, we're driving massive investment in clean energy and clean energy jobs. That's what a serious government does who's serious about climate change as well as seizing the economic ‑ the jobs of the future.
Sally Sara: Has Labor learnt the hard way that some of the promised transition energy sources and technology haven't lived up to expectations?
Minister Conroy: Well, I think if you look around, not just Australia, but around the world, there's a massive roll‑out of renewable energy, and reliable, reliable backed up by pumped hydro, by batteries, by gas, particularly peaking gas. That's the way of the future. Just look at the success of our household batteries program that is ‑‑
Sally Sara: But some of the promises around green hydrogen and others, they haven't lived up to expectations, have they?
Minister Conroy: Well, some of these technologies are obviously early on in their cycle, and some will go slower than we predicted, others will go much faster. I'm an industry policy economist by training, and every report from every international organisation, particularly the International Energy Agency, drastically underestimated the speed of the roll‑out of both solar panels and batteries. They always said that they will cost more than they will and that the roll‑out will be slower. But they're going gangbusters; you just have to look at the roll‑out of batteries in Australia right now.
So, yes, some of them have gone slower than we hoped for, like green hydrogen, but solar is taking off and is the cheapest form of new power, even when you include the cost of making it 100 per cent reliable with batteries or pumped hydro or peaking gas.
Sally Sara: Let's have a look at PNG. According to a new report in the Australian this morning, the landmark defence deal with PNG has hit a last‑minute snag after PNG's Cabinet failed to approve the agreement. Is that correct?
Minister Conroy: Well, we're letting the PNG system go through its processes, as it went through our processes. Today we're focused on celebrating 50 years of PNG independence. I'm at the Papua New Guinean Parliament House where we just had the flag raising which marked 50 years since the first raising of the PNG flag, so ‑‑
Sally Sara: But will this defence agreement be signed as expected?
Minister Conroy: So, we're focused on celebrating the independence, and we'll get to the treaty tomorrow, as the PM said yesterday, that's a matter for Wednesday. We're respecting the sovereignty of Papua New Guinea and respecting the processes that they're going through. But this is ‑‑
Sally Sara: Are you confident it will be signed tomorrow?
Minister Conroy: This is a landmark treaty that upgrades our security relationship to a treaty level. This will be seminal in our relationship with Papua New Guinea, our closest neighbour and one of our dearest friends. It builds on our Bilateral Security Agreement and our National Rugby League deal. So, this is an important affair, and we'll get to it tomorrow, but we're respecting the process that's ‑‑
Sally Sara: Are you confident that it will be signed tomorrow?
Minister Conroy: I am confident, but we're respecting the processes of Papua New Guinea and letting them go through their processes. That's really important that we respect their sovereignty. We're not like other countries; we don't come in and try and impose our will on the Pacific family. We respect their processes, we listen to their priorities, and we act on them, and we'll see what tomorrow brings.
Sally Sara: Pat Conroy, we'll leave you to these commemorations marking 50 years of independence in PNG. Thank you for your time from Port Moresby this morning.
Minister Conroy: Thanks Sally. Have a great morning, bye‑bye.
Sally Sara: Pat Conroy, Minister for Defence Industry and Pacific Island Affairs.