Scott Bevan, host: And among those there for all of this was Shortland MP and the Minister for Pacific Island Affairs, Pat Conroy. Pat Conroy is home back in the Hunter, and I spoke with him a little earlier. Pat Conroy, thanks so much for your time.
Minister for Pacific Island Affairs Pat Conroy: Thanks for having me.
Bevan: While you were in PNG this week you attended a ministerial forum where the PNG Foreign Minister said that the PNG-Australia relationship had gone to – his words – the highest level ever. That’s quite a statement. What’s your response to that?
Minister Conroy: Complete agreement. And the best evidence of that is that last year we signed PNG’s first alliance ever, and that was with Australia. And Australia’s first alliance in 70 years. An act of allying two countries is the ultimate expression of friendship and cooperation. And for that to have occurred between our two countries, two countries who are each other’s closest neighbours – well, Australia’s closest neighbour – is an act of great significance.
Bevan: Minister, as you pointed out yourself before the forum began that while we’ve seen a string of agreements and partnerships put into place in recent years, including the Pukpuk Mutual Defence Treaty. You said words have to be turned into action, that these agreements have to be implemented. How difficult do you think that will be?
Minister Conroy: Well, it’s challenging with all acts of government, implementation follow-through. It’s easy to put a media release out, it’s following through. But actions are happening already. So with the bilateral security agreement, which preceded the alliance, the mutual defence treaty, we’re on track with really strong implementation. So we’ve helped PNG build a police training centre at Bomana, which is training not just Papua New Guinean police but police members from 11 Pacific nations. We’re supporting more judges, more mediation officials in villages to deal with the Highland – violence in the Highlands. More support for combating gender-based violence.
So the DSA has been well and truly implemented and the initial steps of the mutual defence treaty have been implemented as well. So, for example, we announced the first intake of Papua New Guinean nationals into the Australian Defence Force with a trial of 100 PNG nationals beginning shortly.
Bevan: So you’re confident words will be turned into action, meaningful action?
Minister Conroy: Well, words are being turned right now into action. And that’s something that we’ve keep focusing on. And it’s really important. But if you think about it, Australia’s prosperity and security depends upon a stable, prosperous and secure Papua New Guinea. Only four kilometres separates our two nations. You could literally swim to PNG if you weren’t worried about crocodiles – and you should be.
Bevan: Before the forum this week, the Defence Minister, Richard Marles, said of the two countries, “We’ve always been the deepest of friends. Now we have each other’s back.” Who are we protecting each other from, Minister?
Minister Conroy: Well, any potential adversary, and I think it’s clear that we face geostrategic competition in our region that’s unprecedented. We’ve got the biggest arms race in the Indo-Pacific since 1945. We’ve got lots of countries being very interested in becoming influential in our region. I’ve said, as has the Foreign Minister, Penny Wong, that we’re in a permanent state of contest for influence in the region. There are many nations that are interested in increasing their influence.
Bevan: Is that a long way of saying China?
Minister Conroy: Well, they’re certainly a country that’s interested in increasing their influence in the region. Defence treaties aren’t aimed at any one country; they’re aimed at increasing the security of the countries who become allies. But there’s no doubt that China, like many other nations, is seeking to increase its influence in the Pacific region, and that’s why our actions – that’s why the actions of the Albanese Labor Government have been so important in not just the alliance with PNG, the alliance with Fiji, the treaties with Tuvalu and Naoero and Vanuatu are all about making sure Australia is the partner of choice for a region where lots of countries are interested in being the primary partner.
Bevan: In regard to being the partner of choice throughout the region and bolstering security at the same time, to pick up on that point you made about part of the Pukpuk Treaty being this move to recruit directly PNG citizens – you said initially about a hundred – into the Australian Defence Force, how feasible is it to broaden that idea, to incorporate other nations throughout the Pacific into a direct recruitment into the ADF?
Minister Conroy: We’ve flagged we’re interested in it. I think countries like Fiji have also expressed interest in it. But we want to start with PNG. They were our first new alliance, and obviously they’ve got a very large population and a government that’s very supportive of this. And I think if we get the model right for PNG that will make it a lot easier to recruit from other nations. And other countries do this. So this is not hugely unusual. So, for example, the UK military recruit from both Fiji and Solomon Islands. They’ve got significant components there. The United States have a lot of serving personnel from some of the Micronesian states. So this is not unusual. It’s a first for Australia. A couple of years ago we said we’d allow a recruitment [inaudible] the Five Eyes countries, the countries we share intelligence with, if they’re permanent residents in Australia, so think UK, United States, Canada and New Zealand. The difference here is we’d be recruiting directly from PNG once they’ve gone through a conversion course.
Bevan: Flipping the coin, though, how big is the risk of weakening the armed forces in those Pacific states at a time when security is very much front of mind?
Minister Conroy: We’re very focused on avoiding that. And one of the key things there is we’re not interested – and we’ve constructed a system where we’re not getting people transferring from the PNG Defence Force. This is about – in the trial it will be university graduates from the universities in Papua New Guinea joining directly into the ADF. I agree completely that if we’re just robbing the Defence Force of PNG or the military force of Fiji, then that would actually not enhance Pacific security; it would probably diminish Pacific security. So this is about seeking out young people who are looking for jobs in labour markets that don’t always have direct paths to formal employment, particularly in PNG we’ve you’ve got a population of over 10 million and not always as many jobs as they would like.
Bevan: Pat Conroy, tied into this developing relationship is a rugby league team, the PNG Chiefs. You were there at the logo and jersey unveiling on Wednesday. As the Chiefs prepare to enter the NRL in 2028 what’s the level of interest? What’s the level of excitement in PNG about this team?
Minister Conroy: It is absolutely massive. Rugby league is a national religion in PNG. This is a country that is the most diverse country in the world – 800 languages, a thousand tribes. Just think about that for a second – a thousand tribes. The one thing that unites them is a love of rugby league, and this team will fulfil a number of objectives. It’s what I call Prime Minister James Marape’s Nelson Mandela vision to bring his country together through support, just as Nelson Mandela did through the Rugby World Cup. It’s got a huge economic component as well in that it will boost tourism in Port Moresby, and every home game will be an advertisement around the world but particularly in Australia for PNG tourism. And it’s obviously got a great social cohesion and education element. So kids won’t be able to play rugby league unless they attend school. We’re also supporting big grassroots school education programs that emphasize things like gender equality. So there’ll be a female team as well, a women’s team. And strong teachings around domestic violence as well. So this will be a vehicle for social cohesion, economic growth and national unity. This is really a national project; it goes well beyond football.
Bevan: Pat, for you yourself, what’s it mean to you? Because for the best of a decade you’ve been pushing for a PNG side in the NRL competition. You were putting it up as official Labor Party policy at a time when I reckon some of your colleagues would have been looking at you going, “What? A rugby league team? What are you talking about?” So what was it like for you to be at that unveiling on Wednesday?
Minister Conroy: It was a great honour. I paraphrased Prime Minister Gough Whitlam who said that if his entire political career was wiped out but for his role in PNG independence, he would rest easy. I said that if my political career was erased but for my small role in getting the Chiefs into the NRL, I would rest easy. It is that significant in terms of its impact on Papua New Guinea in terms of national unity, social cohesion, gender equality and economic development. And also it will be instrumental – it is instrumental in bringing the two countries together. This team – and I get questions, legitimately, why Australia is supporting this financially.
Bevan: $600 million is a lot of money.
Minister Conroy: It is a lot of money, $60 million per year. But this is one of the critical reasons why PNG has committed to continuing with its traditional security partners. It’s one of the reasons – not the only reason, but is one of the reasons – PNG felt comfortable signing the mutual defence treaty. So this, the rugby league team, is making both Australia and PNG safer, and that’s why it’s worth the investment. This is the first time in the history of the world, as far as I know, that a sporting team entering a competition has been used for such strong diplomatic benefit. And through this initiative Australia will be safer, PNG will be safer because it brings both nations much closer together. And that’s a great thing for Australia.
Bevan: What happens to the club and, indeed, our friendship with PNG if PNG signs a security deal with China?
Minister Conroy: Well, I’m confident they won’t because we have the alliance now which has – which is all the sea, which has commitments around not taking actions that undermine the security of the other nation. So there’s a strong language in the treaty that while its operational would prevent either country - so not just PNG but Australia – making decisions that undermine security of the other.
The second point is that the trilateral agreement between Australia, Papua New Guinea and the National Rugby League, or the Australian Rugby League Commission, rather, has termination provisions. And those termination provisions, which will never be used I’m confident, state very clearly that if the Australian government chooses to withdraw support for the franchise that the franchise must be terminated. If for whatever reason commitments being given by the NRL to the Australian government or by the PNG government to the Australian government or other things occurred, the franchise can be terminated and taxpayers’ money than be safeguarded. But I’m confident it won’t happen because Australia and PNG are the closest of friends. We’re the newest allies. Our people are aligned.
This team will be a success on and off the field. They’ve already signed the highest – the biggest sponsorship deals in the history of the National Rugby League. It’s going to be financially sustainable quite quickly after entering the competition. It’s going to be successful on the field. You just look at the signings of players like Joey Manu and Jerome Luai amongst others, and it fulfils a strong strategic alignment for both countries as well that justifies the investment by both countries. PNG is putting a lot of money into this. The Australian government is putting money into this. The NRL is putting money into this. And I think over time historians and academics will say this is the sort of poster child for how countries can use sport to bring nations together.
Bevan: Minister, finally, you’re due to head back to Canberra with parliament sitting next week. How are you feeling about that? How do you feel about what you do after the shocking events this week with your fellow MP Helen Haines suffering such dreadful injuries in an alleged attack?
Minister Conroy: First off, I should say my thoughts are with Helen and her family. This is absolutely horrific. And next week will be very sombre in parliament. It’s caused me, like I think all MPs, to reflect on what we do as public servants. But it’s broader than that. Every Australian has a right to go about their life, particularly at work, free from threats of violence and with respect and dignity. I think about the nurses and other frontline workers that are copping abuse and physical attacks right now or retail workers being abused as people go through the flow of Christmas shopping, which is a very stressful time.
So while politicians are seeing an elevated number of attacks and threats – the federal police have commented on how many threats are occurring – we shouldn’t lose sight that a lot of Australians in other professions are dealing with this as well. And I just call for everyone to treat every Australian – every human being, in fact – with respect and dignity, just like you’d like to be treated. And social media has a lot to answer for. Some of the commentary in the mainstream media is unhelpful as well. The other thing, escalating language is just really unhelpful and we just need to take the temperature down because people shouldn’t have to deal with this. And what Helen is going through is absolutely horrific.
Bevan: Pat Conroy, welcome home, and thanks for speaking with us.
Minister Conroy: Thanks very much. Have a good morning.