TV Interview, Sarah Ferguson, ABC 7.30

Sarah Ferguson, Host: The Prime Minister announced today a $600 million agreement to secure an NRL team for Papua New Guinea with a major side hustle. A condition that PNG as we understand it, not allow China to secure a military foothold in the country. It's an unusual triangle that unites the government with PNG and the Australian Rugby League Commission. The Minister for International Development and the Pacific, Pat Conroy, joins me now. Pat Conroy, welcome to 7:30.

Minister For International Development And The Pacific, Pat Conroy: Pleasure to be here.

Sarah Ferguson: Now, why is it in Australia's national interest to spend taxpayers money on a football team in another country?

Minister Conroy: Well, what we've seen over the last three years is the Albanese Government rebuilding our position in the Pacific. I think everyone remembers the worrying agreement between the Solomon Islands and China around a security deal that happened under the Morrison Dutton government. And we've been committed to repairing that damage. So, we're the number one partner, the partner of choice in the Pacific, and that includes Papua New Guinea. And you start with people-to-people connections. So, this rugby league deal is about making Australia safer by getting stronger people to people connections between the two countries and about economic development for a country that's vital to our future.

Sarah Ferguson: Now can you explain that what I just referred to in the intro there, which is the so-called China clause which would see, as I understand it, the deal cancelled if PNG allows China to establish a security foothold in PNG.

Minister Conroy: Well, this agreement is underpinned by strategic trust between the two governments. And by strategic trust, it's the public commitment that Papua New Guinea has made that Australia is their number one security partner of choice. And as recently as this week, Foreign Minister Tkatchenko said that they will not sign a security deal with China. So, that strategic trust underpins this agreement. And obviously there's a clause in this agreement that allows the Commonwealth to withdraw funding and the NRL will be required to withdraw the franchise. I don't see that ever happening. Because this agreement, an NRL team in PNG is in the interests of the Australian people and the Papua New Guinean people. And as Peter V'landys said today, he could never see a Papua New Guinean Government undermining that trust.

Sarah Ferguson: Now, just before we talk about the rugby league side of it, just to stay here, does the deal actually specify no military or policing deals with China?

Minister Conroy: We have a separate agreement with the Papua New Guinean Government that is all about strategic trust. It makes it very clear their commitments and those commitments are obviously a confidential matter. But I'd refer you to Minister Tkatchenko's public statement that they will not be entering into any security deals with China.

Sarah Ferguson. So, what sort of, what sort of thing would constitute a breach of the deal?

Minister Conroy: Well, again, I'm not going to get into hypotheticals. That's not what Ministers should be doing. But I'll make the point that I think people understand what a policing or defence agreement is when they see one. And I really trust the word of Foreign Minister Tkatchenko and Prime Minister Marape. But more importantly than that, the security of both countries is intertwined. And Prime Minister Marape was very eloquent today, saying, of course, Australia is their number one security partner because our security depends on theirs and their security depends upon us.

Sarah Ferguson: But, you know, Papua New Guinean politics can be volatile. What happens if Mr. Marape and indeed the Foreign Minister lose their positions?

Minister Conroy: Well, this franchise will be enormously popular in Papua New Guinea. This is a very diverse country, country. 830 languages, a thousand tribes. The only thing that unites Papua New Guinea is the national religion of rugby league. And I'm very confident that any future government will see the value of that and won't do anything that undermines having a rugby league team in the National Rugby League competition. Our relationship goes much beyond rugby league. We're the biggest development partner, we're the biggest security partner. We've got thousands of Papua New Guineans working in our economy right now. So, our relationship is deep, it's enduring, and it will go on for decades with that security partner.

Sarah Ferguson: Those are the more traditional ways of countries achieving these, the sort of partnerships that you want. This is much more unusual. I just want to understand it a bit better. Is it only about preventing security arrangements, or could the Australian government also use the deal to stymie other Chinese investments in PNG, particularly in sensitive areas like Port development or telecoms?

Minister Conroy: Well, strategic trust that we're talking about here that underpins this is about us being the security partner of choice. So, you can read into that what you want, but we are focused on that. And the public utterances from Prime Minister Marape and Foreign Minister Tkatchenko have gone to no security or policing deal with China. And that's a big, important statement from them. And we're privileged to be their security partner of choice.

Sarah Ferguson: Now, let me just ask you this, though. But if China's rapidly evolving military poses a threat to Australia, as we've established through listening to the Defence Strategic Review or the debate around AUKUS, if that is the situation, why not seek a formal military alliance with Papua New Guinea rather than a deal through football?

Minister Conroy: Well, again, we entered into force today, the Bilateral security agreement that we signed last year that has ANZUS level commitments between the two countries. It includes a very big implementation package to improve law and order in Papua New Guinea. That's one part of our security relationship that people should be focusing because it's very powerful and a requirement to consult with other parties, with the other country before engaging with other parties. So, the BSA should be read alongside these other agreements and that's really important. But we should take a step back and acknowledge that we're in a permanent contest in the Pacific. China is seeking to have a security presence in the region and that's why we've been really focused, the Albanese Labor Government, on rebuilding our relationship and being a partner of choice. We've got the Tuvalu Treaty that gives certain security guarantees. We announced on Monday the Nauru Australia Treaty that gives similar security guarantees. Today's announcement is all about strategic trust. This is about Australia being the partner of choice for the region. And that's what's occurring under our government.

Sarah Ferguson: There's a shift in the language of the Government. You just used that phrase about China seeking military bases in the Pacific. You spent a long time as a government avoiding saying it's all about China. Why are you sharpening your language?

Minister Conroy: Well, it's not all about China. Lots of countries have got interest in the Pacific and we’re being more explicit that China is seeking an enhanced security presence in that region. You just have to see what they've attempted to do in the region. You just have to see the security pact of the Solomon Islands that Peter Dutton allowed to happen when he was last in government to know that's their focus. And we understand that.

Sarah Ferguson: But why now? Why change the language now? None of these, none of these, none of these conditions are new, in fact.

Minister Conroy: Well, I think what we're seeing is, as Penny Wong has said, a permanent state of contest. And that's different from a few years ago. Every day it is a contest for influence in the Pacific and we're committed to embodying the Principles of the 2022 Pacific Island Forum Leaders Communique, which said if there's a gap in Pacific security, they should look to the Pacific first. And as a proud member of the Pacific family, we're following through with that PIF leadership communique.

Sarah Ferguson: Ok, let's make the vertiginous move from geostrategic moves in the Pacific to rugby league. Who gets the money and how do you ensure that all of the money goes to developing the team?

Minister Conroy: Yeah, we've got really strict governance and accounting processes that are embodied in the long form agreement. And the th money will be going to the NRL to run the franchise. Initially, the $290 million will go to the franchise, which will be PNG owned but initially controlled by the Australian Rugby League Commission. They will have the not a majority, but four of the eight directors on the board and a casting vote. And over time that will transition from PNG ownership and NRL control to PNG ownership and control as certain criteria are met. And we'll be working in partnership with the NRL on the $250 million Rugby League partnerships for the Pacific, which is all about development, healthy lifestyles, good education, outcomes for kids across four Pacific countries.

Sarah Ferguson: We know that rugby league is, as you say, a religion in Papua New Guinea, but nonetheless, what happens if this franchise fails? Is the government prepared to underwrite the losses, including for lost income on broadcast deals?

Minister Conroy: Well, this agreement has very strict conditions. Our commitment of $600 million is capped, both the maximum amount and a requirement that there be no funding beyond the 10 years. So, we have no liabilities that you've described. But more importantly, I'm very confident it's going to be very successful. We, the Papua New Guinea Government and the NRL are all putting in significant investments to make sure it succeeds. This is a population of over 10 million people, all committed to rugby league. The investment in the player pathway pipeline means this franchise will succeed. I'll give you an example. This year the PNG schoolboys drew with the Australian schoolboys and they were leading until the last minute. Last year they lost by six points. The junior talent there is massive. Once we've got these player pipelines flowing through, I think they'll dominate the competition just as Panthers are at the moment, because Penrith's got a massive junior talent. So, I'm very confident about their future and this will bring our two peoples together and help develop economically Papua New Guinea.

Sarah Ferguson: Pat Conroy on the Panthers. Thank you very much. Assistant Minister, thank you very much indeed for joining us.

Minister Conroy: My pleasure.