Interview with Greg Jennett, Afternoon Briefing, ABC Television

Greg Jennett:

Pacific Minister Pat Conroy is today making his first visit to Samoa, complete with extra aid for the small island nation. Pat Conroy joined us on a slightly wobbly video connection from the capital, Apia.

Pat Conroy, welcome to what I think is our first interview from Samoa on Afternoon Briefing. You're gradually crossing off more countries on your "must visit" list in the Pacific. I understand you've met Prime Minister Fiamē there, and you've announced additional funding that will go towards the Samoan budget. What exactly is involved in that? What will it do?

Minister for International Development and the Pacific, Pat Conroy:

Thanks Greg. Well, like a lot of countries including Australia, the COVID pandemic hit Samoa very hard indeed, it's a country that really relies on the tourism industry that got shut off for two years. So I announced today a further $20 million of budget assistance for the government and people of Samoa, and that money will go to support elderly seniors of Samoa and people with a disability to survive over the next 12 months. So, this is a critical investment that the people and Government of Samoa have asked for to deal with an economy that's slowly rebounding from COVID. So it will help elderly Samoans and people with a disability.

Greg Jennett:

So this funding announcement that you've made is very specific to aged care, but where does it fit, Pat Conroy, in this broader eight‑year economic partnership that Australia is forging with the Government of Samoa.

Pat Conroy:

Well, it complements our other initiatives. So today I signed two agreements; one Tautai, which is about governance for economic development and the other being Tautua, which is about leadership and service and investment in human development, and both of these are long‑term funding agreements between the governments of Samoa and Australia where we would provide our development assistance, our foreign aid over an eight‑year cycle and where we would support a lot of money within that allocation going directly to their budget, and then the Government of Samoa would then allocate it.

So it gives the people and Government of Samoa more freedom and flexibility to allocate this foreign aid to areas that are a priority for them, to deal with emerging crises, for example.

Greg Jennett:

Are we getting a bit of a push‑pull effect in our foreign policy here though, because you're there allocating money to the Government of Samoa. At the same time, it has expressed some concerns about Australia's Pacific Engagement Visa, that is to say it's worried about a brain drain effect of some of its best and brightest workers moving to Australia, perhaps even becoming permanent residents in this country. How do you reconcile these two phenomena that are slightly at odds?

Pat Conroy:

Well, good partners listen to the concerns and priorities of their partners, and that's what we're doing around the Pacific Engagement Visa, which is all about building up a Pacific diaspora within Australia to deepen the people‑to‑people links between our two countries, and the Pacific Engagement Visa allocates 3,000 permanent migration spots each year for people from the Pacific, and we're very conscious of concerns around brain drain, and that's why having a ballot selection process is so critical, and the ballot selection process means that when we allocate a specific number to a specific country, they're selected by a random ballot, and that means that someone who's finished high school has as much chance as a cardiac surgeon, and that's how we combat the brain drain element.

Importantly, people have to have a firm job offer, they have to meet health and character requirements, but the random ballot is a critical path to avoiding the brain drain claims. And that's why I find it so bewildering that the Opposition has opposed the ballot for a Pacific Engagement Visa, because if you don't have a ballot, you will get Pacific brain drain, because we will end up selecting the best and brightest from the Pacific rather than more randomised selection.

So again, it's really important to listen to the Pacific partners. That's what we're doing. Unfortunately, that's not what the Opposition has done while they've opposed the Pacific Engagement Visa.

Greg Jennett:

Okay. In your high-level talks, did the issue of AUKUS re-emerge? I know that Prime Minister Fiamē has previously, you know, expressed some concerns or at least hoping that there is some public declaration around the Treaty of Rarotonga, that is to say, you know, Australia letting neighbours know if nuclear weapons were traversing the oceans around this part of the world. Was this raised?

Pat Conroy:

It wasn't, and Prime Minister Fiamē was one of the 60 leaders of nations that we consulted with and briefed before the AUKUS announcement. Importantly, as part of that announcement we reaffirmed our commitment to the Treaty of Rarotonga, which commits Australia and every signatory to a nuclear‑free South Pacific. The Treaty of Rarotonga makes it very clear that it's about prohibiting nuclear weapons transiting the South Pacific, not about nuclear propulsion, and we're fully compliant with it, and in all my conversations with Pacific leaders and Pacific ministers, they understand the difference and are reassured by our commitment that the AUKUS announcement is about nuclear-propelled submarines, not nuclear weapons.

Greg Jennett:

Okay. Now, while you’re away, Pat Conroy, China's Vice Foreign Minister is in Canberra for talks with DFAT officials. Will Australia use those talks to explain this country's own endeavours in the Pacific? I guess particularly things like a security pact with Papua New Guinea, which has been a point of friction with Beijing. Is that expected to be raised?

Pat Conroy:

Well, you'd have to ask the Chinese Vice Foreign Minister to be honest, but what I can say is we've been very open with our intentions; we seek to be the partner of choice in the Pacific, including the security partner of choice. One of the key declarations out of the Pacific Island Forum Leaders meeting late last year was that the Pacific should look to other countries in the Pacific first for their security, and Australia has publicly proclaimed that we stand ready to fill any security gap in the Pacific Island region.

That's why we were proud to sign the bilateral security arrangement with Vanuatu and that's why we're negotiating a bilateral security treaty with PNG. We're a proud member of the Pacific family, and if another member of the Pacific family has a security gap or a security need, we stand ready to fill that as the PIF declaration makes clear. That's important. We show up, we listen, we respect the priorities of the Pacific.

Greg Jennett:

And what message do you read into the fact that the Chinese delegation, the Vice Foreign Minister, will move on to meet the new Rabuka Government in Fiji? Do you think that in itself is meant to send a message, that visit?

Pat Conroy:

Look, it's not for me to speculate on the motives of other governments, but I think it's been very clear that there are three themes that are driving the Pacific, and that's COVID, climate change and competition, but there is a geostrategic competition occurring in the region, that's why Australia are reengaging, and that's why the new Australian Government's Pacific policies that we put in place upon winning the election are so critical. This is all about Australia being the partner of choice for our nearest neighbours. We are proud to do that, that's why I'm in Samoa, that's why the Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister and I have made so many trips to the Pacific. We're there to support the Pacific family. It's in our interests and it's in the interests of a peaceful and prosperous Pacific.

Greg Jennett:

I don't want to prolong this conversation too long in light of the technical difficulties, Pat Conroy, and I will close out with another question on Samoa in just a moment, but just briefly asking you to put your Defence Industry Minister hat on. Ukraine has requested a bunch of Hawkei protected mobility vehicles from Australia's fleet. Does Australia have enough to spare to meet that request?

Pat Conroy:

Well, we're proud and privileged to have provided around $680 million worth of assistance to the Government of Ukraine in their struggle against Putin's unjustified and unprovoked attack on them, and that includes over $500 million of military aid; that includes 90 Bushmaster protected mobility vehicles; it includes artillery; includes munitions; includes drones. We're proud to do that, and as the Deputy Prime Minister and the Defence Minister Richard Marles has said, we stand with Ukraine; till the end of this conflict, we will stand with them, and we'll always evaluate our position, and we'll consider any requests when they're made. But that's all I can really say on that matter.

Greg Jennett:

All right. And because I promised it, one final one on Samoa, they're off to the World Rugby Cup in France later this year. On a good day, they're capable of upsetting any team really. Can you promise Wallabies supporters that you're not doing anything there to enhance Samoan rugby on this visit?

Pat Conroy:

Well, sport unites the Pacific, and I may be making an announcement tomorrow that will support the Manu Samoa team. Rugby, both Union and League, across the Pacific is a great people‑to‑people linkage between our two countries. I think everyone was cheering when Samoa played Australia in the Rugby League World Cup final last year. I think all 100,000 Australians of Samoan heritage were out on the streets that week, and quite frankly I think if every Kangaroo that was of Samoan heritage played for Samoa they probably would have won last year. So I'm proud to support Pacific sports, because it's something that brings our countries together; whether it's Rugby League with Papua New Guinea, Rugby Union with Samoa, netball, they unite our region and I'm proud to support it. It's critical for our future relationships in the region.

Greg Jennett:

All right. We'll evaluate whatever announcement it is that you make there, Pat Conroy, and let you go. Thanks for persevering with some technical difficulties in the Pacific, but we appreciate it also.

Pat Conroy:

Thanks Greg, have a great day.

ENDS.